Surrender

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

part one: yes most places that have LS are H17.

part two: wrong, the majority of people using LS are ploppies and don't have a clue how to use it. see posts by ihate17 above. i've seen more people at the table play it wrong, than right. 16v10 is played right more often than not, but i've seem plenty of people h or s on 16v10 AND surrender other hands.

i've seen people surrender hands of 7 and 8 vs. dealer 7.

LS is a win win situation for the casino, i can't believe they are so stupid. most people don't use it - so it doesn't hurt their edge AT ALL. then of those that do, they give up a bigger edge to the house, that the edge lost by those that use it properly. what chumps.

i think you misunderstood me.. i was saying that most ploppies dont use it, thus the ratio of correct usage to incorrect usage (when used) is probably larger (closer) than you think.. it sure as hell is closer than correct insurance used

In Vegas, casinos that offer surrender often have it on both games. Places like Mandalay Bay, Tropicana, MGM, Monte Carlo, Wynn and Bellagio and many others have both Hit and Stay on soft 17 tables and offer it on both kinds of shoes.
Basically today there are no longer any double deck games with surrender I believe and casinos that have surrender have it on both.

I think when casinos decide to have or not have surrender, you get two opinions. The casinos that like table games and have some good ones appear to understand that even though surrender will reduce the house edge, that it in fact increases it because the vast majority of players play it wrong. This would be the MGM properties as a big corporate example.
Casinos that dislike table games and do not really understand them, fear a rule that a decent player can use to his advantage and do not understand that most players are not decent players, so they reject it. This would be Harrah's properties.

ihate17

why did you say s17 vs h17 doesnt matter? it totally matters, its the biggest rule change, unless you count crazy rules like 6:5

That's true, sometimes I think the casinos have no idea just how rare even a solid Basic Strategy player is, let alone an AP. Surrender is a rule that takes skill to apply properly, and they will rarely see a player who knows how to use it.

What does surprise me is that casino allow resplitting of aces anywhere, because even ploppies know to split aces and that's not a rule they can screw up. RSA is nice for a counter too but not as good as LS.

i dont think ls takes much skill, there are only like 5 times when you use it (unless your counting), but then again, ploppies seem to make everything more difficult.. good point about rsa, its pretty hard for it to be used improperly, but ls is not better than rsa, they are almost identical http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/house-edge-calculator.html

 

[ihate17]

I never said it does not matter????

Bob
Of course H-17 and S-17 matter and it matters more than surrender.

What I was doing was disagreeing with an earlier post that said that casinos that have surrender are mostly h-17. I was saying that casinos that know surrender will make them more money will have it on both games. Or at least that is what I was trying to say.

ihate17