Table games approved in PA

[Tarzan]

Boardwalk Cats

Sometimes I stop at the dollar store on the boardwalk and buy some cans of catfood and feed the cats, as many people do. Jason, you spend nearly as much time in AC as I do. It is certain that we have crossed paths over the years and didn't know who one another were.

Have you ever run into a man dressed in drag that bears a striking resemblance to Joan Rivers that plays a lot of blackjack and is sometimes seen wandering down the boardwalk with cans of catfood?


It will be interesting to see if AC does anything to stay competitive and retain table players. The trial period by Trop of having some 4 deck games lasted such a short period of time it was a joke. I think they didn't advertise that they had something unique and different and the marketing aspect of the 4 deck game wasn't there. If those were MY casino's 4 deck games and I had something like that unique and different from any other casino in AC, I would PUSH it! They spend all that money on those billboards anyway with useless garbage, so why not put something worthwhile on them that is really going to attract customers and new business. I read those billboards on the way into town that have useless hype. You know the ones I speak of... the visual of the people smiling and tossing a pile of currency into the air "as if to say Yippeeeeee!" and then some blurb about how their casino was voted best this, that and the other thing---Voted on by WHO I wonder??? Stuff that plays into the psychological mindset of the recreational gambler and assumes all gamblers are completely stupid and believe such nonsense posted on these billboards. Oh well... water under the bridge and history now as far as Trop's 4 deck games; They just didn't have it in place long enough to cause an impact.

AC casinos all seem to do what ALL the other casinos are doing and nothing different for the most part. No innovation, no creativity. 4 decks? Hell, I would have a doubledeck game with 3:2 standard payout, offer (like they used to do in Vegas years ago) some special such as a 2:1 payout on blackjacks on...Tuesdays or some crap like that. I would draw in every blackjack player in all of AC! Harrah's blackjack tables would be EMPTY on Tuesdays. Would Jason and Flash come whack me for a few bucks? YES! Would the other players flocking in make up for it all and THEN some? YES! Would I make more money than Harrah's? YES! Would those blackjack players that were going to go to PA drive the extra hour to come see me? YES! Would I have to have a larger blackjack pit to accomodate this huge amount of business at ALL times of the week and not just on Tuesday? YES! Basic marketing concept (that casinos just don't understand)... much larger volume of business with a smaller percentage can often be better than less business in which you have to try to "gouge out" extra percentage points. Business decreases and you panic and have to gouge MORE to attempt to meet the same profit margin, making you vulnerable to any competitors. A downward spiral is started that there is no backing out of and you find yourself losing a significant amount of business. Ultimately there is no retrieving those customers that you have wronged to get them back... there are the original anti-trust issues that drove them to your competitors...

Harrah's casinos have all 8 decks and H17 and couldn't care less if there are better games in non-Harrah's casinos... they know there are plenty of people stupid enough that don't know the difference around to pack their tables in. Their attitude is we don't NEED to be competitive for we are the large and mighty Harrah's and we are banking on gamblers to be too stupid to know the difference. Their outlook is much different. They are RIGHT though... walking through Harrah's places I still see packed in tables when there are tons of better games available in AC. Sure they have lost business in casinos that were formerly owned by someone else, such as Caesar's by adding the H17 and making the comp system so pathetic that it gives about nothing to no one, having 6:5 tables, etc. Will they maintain this attitude once PA casinos kick in full swing? (In a way I hope so because they will take such a beating it will be ridiculous).

 

[kewljason]

Sometimes I stop at the dollar store on the boardwalk and buy some cans of catfood and feed the cats, as many people do. Jason, you spend nearly as much time in AC as I do. It is certain that we have crossed paths over the years and didn't know who one another were.

Have you ever run into a man dressed in drag that bears a striking resemblance to Joan Rivers that plays a lot of blackjack and is sometimes seen wandering down the boardwalk with cans of catfood?

"run into"?? I usually run from! :grin: Plus you are not suppossed to feed the cats! No wonder they are getting so big. Have you seen the size of these lazy "fat cats" (pun intended) lol Now they just lounge around all day waiting for you.

 

[21forme]

The trial period by Trop of having some 4 deck games lasted such a short period of time it was a joke. I think they didn't advertise that they had something unique and different and the marketing aspect of the 4 deck game wasn't there.

They did advertise it on a billboard on the AC Expwy and on it they mentioned something to the effect "less cards, better odds." Also, in the casino, they had signs above those 4 tables, pointing out the 4D games.

IMO, it was short-lived for a few reasons:
1. The dealers were not trained properly for those games. They didn't know where to put the cut card. They bitched about frequent shuffling, etc.

2. They put the games on the main floor with 10-500 limits.
Where do most casinos put their best games? In the high roller pits, of course. Why did Trop do it backwards?

3. Because most of the games in AC are so poor, these 4 tables were a counter magnet. When I was there, I so no less than 6 APs either playing or back-counting those 4 tables. This was the case on several occasions. Since AC can't boot anyone, they resorted to half shoe-ing which resulted in even more shuffling. I don't know why they didn't flat bet the APs, instead. After a while, the PCs just gave up on protecting the games - I played several times, spreading to my heart's content and they just ignored me. Maybe they were tired of policing the games, knowing they'd go away shortly.

4. Ploppies didn't like the games because of frequent shuffling. I was playing in a small casino earlier this week that had 4 tables open - 3 were 6D shoes and were full. I sat down at an empty DD pitch game with good rules and played it myself over an hour. (No, not in AC. )

5. Most ploppies are oblivious to the rules. We focus on them. The average BJ player is clueless.

 

[iwantblackjack]

anyone wanna place bets that the table games in PA will have rules like Harrah's or worse, like Detroit and Tunica?

 

[blackjack avenger]

They Should

They should provide the best rules/game on the East coast and advertiese it! They would do very very well.:joker::whip:

 

[blackjack avenger]

Big Money

The biggest bettors are often in the casinos with the best:joker::whip: rules!

 

[21forme]

anyone wanna place bets that the table games in PA will have rules like Harrah's or worse, like Detroit and Tunica?

They should provide the best rules/game on the East coast and advertiese it! They would do very very well.:joker::whip:

But they won't. Their slot payoffs are poor and the VP payoffs are substandard, so the trend will continue. Their best advertising is proximity to the population.

 

[Deleted member 3798]

Uboats!

Why are you guys afraid to mention ABC casino by name? It's not like everyone doesn't know already and there are better games to be had than the ones at ABC casino.

Remember an old saying during WWII because of the Uboats?

Loose lips sink ships! Well we don't worry about Nazi Uboats now, but be aware of another kind of "Uboats" lurking here :grin:!

 

[Blue Efficacy]

I think that either PA or AC would do well to offer a large amount of $5 tables. In this economy, whichever venue does this will get the players, regardless of rules and # of decks.

 

[Thunder]

Harrah's is never going to change their games for the better.. Why? The stupid players who play there could care less. They don't know the difference between 8 decks and 6 decks. If you say distribution to them, they have a blank face. I actually saw a player who knew basic strategy pretty well there and point blank asked them why are they playing there when there are better games at Trump Plaza. The end result is, the evil empire will get all the bad players with little discretionary income, but the big players will go to the other joints that offer decent games as they are smart enough to realize the difference. All one has to do is hit their 12 against a dealer 2 or 3 and watch the angry faces you'll get at Bally's or WWW.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Harrah's is never going to change their games for the better.. Why? The stupid players who play there could care less. They don't know the difference between 8 decks and 6 decks. If you say distribution to them, they have a blank face. I actually saw a player who knew basic strategy pretty well there and point blank asked them why are they playing there when there are better games at Trump Plaza. The end result is, the evil empire will get all the bad players with little discretionary income, but the big players will go to the other joints that offer decent games as they are smart enough to realize the difference. All one has to do is hit their 12 against a dealer 2 or 3 and watch the angry faces you'll get at Bally's or WWW.

That's true, the modern marketing approach is to wring the last penny out of the clueless $10 players with bad games, and let the whales go to the high limit rooms in the upscale properties. There isn't much interest in getting the old-time gambler back. Guys like that had to win sometimes, and they demanded good service from a casino. Big casinos don't want anyone to win ever, and they want to run as cheaply as possible; rail booze, bad food, lousy accommodations.

But there are still plenty of things for an AP to do at HET properties.

 

[kewljason]

Harrah's is never going to change their games for the better.. Why? The stupid players who play there could care less. They don't know the difference between 8 decks and 6 decks. If you say distribution to them, they have a blank face. I actually saw a player who knew basic strategy pretty well there and point blank asked them why are they playing there when there are better games at Trump Plaza. The end result is, the evil empire will get all the bad players with little discretionary income, but the big players will go to the other joints that offer decent games as they are smart enough to realize the difference. All one has to do is hit their 12 against a dealer 2 or 3 and watch the angry faces you'll get at Bally's or WWW.

I disagree with the "stupid players who play there could care less" part. I'm sure they have there share of them as all casino's do. I haven't been to Harrah's in over a year but always found that they had a very loyal following. They seemed to run a lot of junkets and group trips from places like north carolina and georgia ect. A few years ago, when they used to be more liberal with comps, I used to stay there as it was easy access to the borgata where I played alot. I was always amazed to talk to people that had been going exclusively to harrah's one or twice a year for 20+ years. I would ask them, "have you been to Borgata? or been to the Taj? or The Trop?" and they would always say "we only play at harrah's".

 

[kewljason]

I don't believe ABC casino is improving conditions due to potential competition from pa yet. Pa is still probably the better part of a year away from table games. As all they have done so far is anounce the intent to change the law. The law as it is currently written has to be changed, and before that can happen their has to be public hearings. These things take time and it will not happen overnight. It is more likely that ABC casino is improving their game because revenue dropped after the negative changes they made in the summer.

In a revision to this statement, apparently there does not have to be public hearings before changing the law. The state senate passed the fill on Friday and it is likely that the state legislature will vote to approve the bill this week and the governor will be quick to sign. More than likely there will be legal challenges to the law, which could delay the law taking effect, but even if the challenges are dismissed quickly, the state gaming control board says it will need a minimum of 6 to 9 months to license the additional workers necessary and have the ability to regulate the game. So we are talking maybe by next summer. Be interesting to see what kind of rules they come up with.

 

[petsliask]

Budget was just agreed upon in PA and legalizing table games was part of the plan. They are deciding on licensing fees and tax rates....IMO this will be up and running by the end of the year.... I have been to the Bethlehem Sands MANY times, and they are already prepped for this. They have half the casino floor curtained off which they were going to use for adding more slots, or table games. The space is huge and will bring a more valued customer to the sands.

 

[FLASH1296]

DELAWARE has approved casino table games at three (3) locations.

Start date is set for March.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

DELAWARE has approved casino table games at three (3) locations.

Start date is set for March.

Is one of them in the Lewes/Rehoboth area? That would be cool! The casino could comp the ferry.

 

[FLASH1296]

1. Delaware Park Racetrack & Slots, Wilmington.
2. Dover Downs Slots, Dover.
3. Harrington Raceway & Casino, Harrington.

 

[kewljason]

Budget was just agreed upon in PA and legalizing table games was part of the plan. They are deciding on licensing fees and tax rates....IMO this will be up and running by the end of the year.... I have been to the Bethlehem Sands MANY times, and they are already prepped for this. They have half the casino floor curtained off which they were going to use for adding more slots, or table games. The space is huge and will bring a more valued customer to the sands.

The bill to legalize table games is not part of the state budget. The state budget list provisions of over $200 million in income from table games (probably an unattainable estimate), but the budget itself does not legalize table games. There were a seperate bills introduced in both the state senate and house that would officially legalize tables games. The senate bill passed last thurday Oct 8 2009, 29-20. The house bill is scheduled for vote on tuesday Oct 13, 2009 and expected to pass. The bills are very different though (senate bill calls for 14% tax on table games, while the house version calls for 37% tax) so they will need to be compromised before the governor can sign the bill.

Greg Fajt, the new head of the PA Gaming Control Board said over the weekend "that the board would need a minimum of 9 months to set up mechanisms to regulate table games", so while it is true that the sands set aside space for table games in acticipation of these happenings, I think your estimate of "up and running by end of year" is just optimistic thinking.

In a related note, Philadelphia broke ground last week on the sugarhouse casino, the first site within city limits. It's been 5 years since the legalization of gambling and we have finally managed to put a shovel in the ground. lol Sadly, the following day fuel lines on the construction equipment were cut causing further delays.

 

[BillytheBJkid]

The bill to legalize table games is not part of the state budget. The state budget list provisions of over $200 million in income from table games (probably an unattainable estimate), but the budget itself does not legalize table games. There were a seperate bills introduced in both the state senate and house that would officially legalize tables games. The senate bill passed last thurday Oct 8 2009, 29-20. The house bill is scheduled for vote on tuesday Oct 13, 2009 and expected to pass. The bills are very different though (senate bill calls for 14% tax on table games, while the house version calls for 37% tax) so they will need to be compromised before the governor can sign the bill.

Greg Fajt, the new head of the PA Gaming Control Board said over the weekend "that the board would need a minimum of 9 months to set up mechanisms to regulate table games", so while it is true that the sands set aside space for table games in acticipation of these happenings, I think your estimate of "up and running by end of year" is just optimistic thinking.

In a related note, Philadelphia broke ground last week on the sugarhouse casino, the first site within city limits. It's been 5 years since the legalization of gambling and we have finally managed to put a shovel in the ground. lol Sadly, the following day fuel lines on the construction equipment were cut causing further delays.

where is sugarland casino and will they have $5 tables?

 

[kewljason]

Pa Politics as usual. The vote on the Table games bill scheduled for this past tuesday, did not happen. The pa House has now stands in recess for nearly four weeks until November 9. They could be called back into session should a compromise be reached, but that seems unlikely with until after the Nov 3 elections. As I said earlier, things just don't move as quickly as they should. Anyone who thought tables would be up and running in short order in Pa just doesn't know Pa politics. They will cut off their nose to spite their face.