The Comp Paradox

[SPX]

I'm saying you need to quit being a jerk to people.

Yep, thanks for looking out. . .

I would like to think that even if someone's disagrees with a fellow poster then they find a more supportive and constructive way to go about it. I would like to think we're all friends around here, after all. . .

 

[SPX]

Not in the least. If you really don't know the difference between the two,you need to study up on comps.Have you read Comp City? Or anything about the art of Comp Counting? It certainly doesn't seem like you have.The whole idea of it is to make the casino think you are gambling much more than you really are.That way you end up with many times more comps than what your action dictates.Comp hustling can give you a much higher edge than card counting.It's closer to hole carding.

First off, I am well aware of how the comp system works. However, when I say that you are comped on your "average" bet and you disagree with that, then that's being argumentative.

Okay, sure, it's your PERCEIVED average bet but doesn't that go without saying? Or the PERCEIVED amount of money you are putting into play. Do I really need to point out that the pit has to PERCEIVE you sitting at the table? Or to PERCEIVE your player's card in their hand?

Furthermore, let's discuss books. . . One thing I know I have read in MANY books is to palm chips when the pit's not looking and drop them in your pocket so that you look like you're losing more money than you're actually losing. I don't know how many times I've read this and I don't know how many stories I've encountered of people who were just average gamblers who were virtually invisible to casino management until they scored an unusually high win.

Consider the slot player whose playing $3 a spin. Sure, they're getting comped for their play but when they hit the $100,000 jackpot they suddenly become FAR more interesting to casino personnel. Limos? Suites? Champagne? Sure. . .

Anything to keep your money in the casino. . .

To say that casinos "don't care" if you break even may be technically incorrect but perhaps you should've PERCEIVED the use of hyperbole because it IS a fact that you will garner the most attention by being a BIG winner (or big loser).

 

[shadroch]

You still don't get it.
I'm sorry but you are like the ploppies arguing against a move,because they know it is wrong.
You haven't a clue what I'm referring to when I talk about Comp Counting,do you?
If the pitboss has me clocked as a $100 bet,and is giving me credit for 60 hands an hour,while in reality I have made only 5 $100 bets and another 30 $10 bets in that hour,then I'm getting comps based on the PBs perceptions,not my real action.Can you follow the difference? Now do the same thing regularly over the course of a year and you'll see the difference between my real action and my percieved action. As I previously stated,it's the difference between a buffet and a comp to the steakhouse.Or flying first class on the casinos dime or coach, out of pocket.
As for the books you mention,
The idea behind rat-holing is not to try to show you're a bigger loser in order to gain extra comps,it's to show the casino you are no threat to them.You want to exagerate your losses and minimilize your winnings.Be a consistant winner in BJ in a single casino and you'll find yourself in an awkward position.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

The specific casino I was referring to was Ameristar in Vicksburg, MS. It's a nice casino, at least by Vicksburg standards. But they're pretty strict about only giving you what you're "entitled" (by running your card) unless they know your face.

Ah I have pleasant memories of that place. Big pile of black in front of me, I'm using an advanced technique on them, and all these girls sitting down and making pleasant conversation. What a trip that was! Didn't really want their comps though, that's an easy town to get run out of once they know who you are.

 

[SPX]

Ah I have pleasant memories of that place. Big pile of black in front of me, I'm using an advanced technique on them, and all these girls sitting down and making pleasant conversation. What a trip that was! Didn't really want their comps though, that's an easy town to get run out of once they know who you are.

Congrats on your "big pile of black."

Ameristar is easily the nicest casino in Vicksburg and last I heard they are adding on to it.

All the others are kind of small and trashy. Rainbow, Diamondjacks and . . . wasn't there another one? Maybe not. . .

Blech.

 

[toastblows]

Well if you're low stakes then they really DON'T care. As a red chipper who plays about once a week they never want to give me a thing. Can't even get a buffet out of the cheap bastards and it's not like we're talking about Vegas here.

MGM/Mirage properties are hilarious with red chips. They wont even log your card unless you are playing $20/hand minimum sometimes in my experience. Ive had pit bosses at Mirage tell me at $15 on a ultimate poker game i had to be at $20 to get rated. At Excalibur they would start rating me on a $15 min. BJ game (which is their 2nd or 3rd highest min stakes of course) So in your case, no red chipping probably isnt going to get you noticed.

However I have never been comped differently and i have won, broken even and lost on various trips. It was always a bet/hr x hrs played = comps earned. They keep track of actual wins and losses terribly in my exp.

 

[shadroch]

MGM may not rate you if you are betting less than $20 an hour,but that doesn't mean they won't comp you.If you are playing there for any length of time,simply ask the PB for a buffet comp. If he tells you no,ask him how much longer you need to play to get one. Being rated and being comped are two different things.Similar,but different.
If you are betting $15 a hand at a full table(60 hands an hour),you are putting around $900 an hour in play.If you jump your bet to $20 a hand but sit out 15 hands( by going to the mens room,stepping away for a smoke,ect,ect) you are still putting the exact same amount in play,but are viewed as giving them an extra 33%. In the Mirage,you are now being rated. Without putting an extra dime at risk.
Places that track your actual play with RFIDs are actually the easiest ones to get over on, but thats nt a discussion for these boards.

 

[EasyRhino]

I think it was a PC at Monte Carlo who declined to accept my player's card when I was betting less than $25. When my bets inevitably rose above $100, she said "I can take that card now".

 

[toastblows]

When my bets inevitably rose above $100, she said "I can take that card now".

I guess she didnt want to do you any favors.....:laugh: ......$25 has become the new $5

 

[iwantblackjack]

I think people should realize that depending where you play, you will get "comps" and/or "comp points". For example, at Harrahs properties, you get the True Reward points which is redeemable for their restaurants, gifts, and such. Plus, depending on your play, you may be granted FREE rooms, anytime (including saturdays) by simply going to reservations while you are logged in with your account. In another example, I get nothing at Borgata; just points based on my average bet, time played, and probably skill that i use at their restaurants and shops. On a Saturday night, I call Borgata to see if they have any rooms for me; they said we do at $295 for Saturday night. I said i'll think about it. My lady, on the other hand, called with her card info, and got comp free room for the night (no comp points deducted, except like 7 points for tax.) Why the discrimination? Well, it's all about money and play. She bets much higher than I; and has long plays with big bets and uses markers. She's won and lost alot; but that doesnt really factor in (imho). Of course, her comp points are much greater than mine, sometimes reaching the max.

As a side, which casinos east of mississippi use rfiid's now for bet tracking and chip management?

 

[shadroch]

The Borgata let her use comp points for the room tax? Thats very unusual.
As for RFIDs east of the Big Muddy,I rarely play there anymore but I have not heard of any in AC.

 

[Tarzan]

Compless Clueless

Over the years I have gotten a little in the way of comp here and there, sort of take what I can get sort of thing. I even got a suite once! I used to get some comps...but it dwindled off. It's always been a mystery on how it all works but the bottom line is that (in the few places I even bother to show a player's card anymore) the amount of comp I receive is not worth bothering with! It amounts to a few dollars an hour of play, which is less than what I may tip the cocktail waitress! It's just hard for me to get excited about that whopping 2 bucks an hour. I think it's just me....and...they hate me or something because I hear of other people getting fantastic comps and lots of freebies.
I go in and do my thing and grind them for what it's worth in a systematic manner week after week after week. In handing them that player's card they are looking at a screen and seeing exactly how you have been consistently and steadily grinding them out of "x" per week for an extended period of time so I think this can possibly affect your comp scenario in an adverse way. For the most part I no longer show a player's card and where I still do my comps are slim to none.

 

[sagefr0g]

comps anyone?

Former Seminole worker let gamblers play slots for free


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flbplayers0109sbjan09,0,3081655.story (Archive copy)

 

[EasyRhino]

(in the few places I even bother to show a player's card anymore)

If your goal is comps, that's the #1 mistake by far. Of course, if your goal is to remain anonymous, that that's the tradeoff.

Incidentally, this discussion did remind me recently to confirm with the PC when leaving a table on what kind of buy-in he had me for. He had me WAY low, because he missed about $800 in small buyins that were triggered mainly from one hand that ballooned to monstrous size. And while the PC even mentioned that comps are just based on bets and time, the shift turned my apparant win into an apparant loss. Would have been a shame if all my ratholing went for nothing.