Things to consider when playing professionally
- Thread starter Thunder
- Start date
kewljason
Well-Known Member
Interesting perspective and one that I haven't heard before, but flawed, Mr. Flash.
By your definition a 38 year player who works 30 hours a week, who makes $28,000 year and plays blackjack xx amount of hours per month, making 40,000 a year is not a professional blackjack player. But a 65 year old retired person receiving the same $28,000 a year in pension and social security and making the same $40,000 playing blackjack in the same xx amount of hours is.
That's why I like my definition of majority of income coming from blackjack play, with the exact figure open for debate. The lesser amount of income could come from any number of sources, work, retirement, investments and still wouldn't matter.
This is absolutely false. If a pro AP writes a book and earns an income from it while still playing, is he no longer a pro? If a pro AP takes money earned from blackjack and invests it into a company that earns him income while he still plays fulltime, is he no longer a pro? I'll let you in on a professional secret, leveraging your AP life, is what will afford you all the things mentioned in this post. Putting your head down and straight counting cards will only allow you to go so far, look up once in a while, you'll be surprised whats there.
Craps Master
Well-Known Member
What the hell is going on in this thread? Food stamps? Government housing? Seriously? How about just go play more and make more money?
I have insurance. It's not a big deal. It costs me about $1000/year, but I get some of that back in value. For instance, the last time I had to get antibiotics, the full course cost me all of $2.00. I asked the pharmacist why they were so cheap. She told me, "You have a good plan." I guess so. It has a high deductible and is mainly just for catastrophic protection, but it does get me negotiated rates on medicine from time to time. Any decent plan does, and returns some value to the consumer without hitting your deductible threshold.
I should point out that I did not even get insurance until I was in my 30s. I have no idea if that was foolish of me or what, but in the great scheme of advantage play, I don't think spending very much time thinking about insurance, food stamps, government housing, fraudulent acts to save a few dollars here or there, or anything else of this nature is worth it. A professional advantage player with professional-level skills is better off figuring out solutions to these issues that are quick and dirty and then going out to earn some more money. Time spent earning is generally better than time spent saving for people who can make as much per hour as advantage players can.
I have insurance. It's not a big deal. It costs me about $1000/year, but I get some of that back in value. For instance, the last time I had to get antibiotics, the full course cost me all of $2.00. I asked the pharmacist why they were so cheap. She told me, "You have a good plan." I guess so. It has a high deductible and is mainly just for catastrophic protection, but it does get me negotiated rates on medicine from time to time. Any decent plan does, and returns some value to the consumer without hitting your deductible threshold.
I should point out that I did not even get insurance until I was in my 30s. I have no idea if that was foolish of me or what, but in the great scheme of advantage play, I don't think spending very much time thinking about insurance, food stamps, government housing, fraudulent acts to save a few dollars here or there, or anything else of this nature is worth it. A professional advantage player with professional-level skills is better off figuring out solutions to these issues that are quick and dirty and then going out to earn some more money. Time spent earning is generally better than time spent saving for people who can make as much per hour as advantage players can.
FLASH1296
Well-Known Member
Actually my definition centers on DISCRETIONARY income.
If you are earning less at Blackjack (poker,etc.) than you NEED to pay all of your bills,
then you NEED the salary/wages/pension/ social security, etc. in order to to do so.
The key phrase is "Professional" If you are relying on other income, than BJ is not your profession.
Professional:
"a person engaged in a specified activity, esp. a sport or branch of the performing arts, as a main paid occupation rather than as a pastime."
If you are earning less at Blackjack (poker,etc.) than you NEED to pay all of your bills,
then you NEED the salary/wages/pension/ social security, etc. in order to to do so.
The key phrase is "Professional" If you are relying on other income, than BJ is not your profession.
Professional:
"a person engaged in a specified activity, esp. a sport or branch of the performing arts, as a main paid occupation rather than as a pastime."
Actually Flash, you are incorrect. Stomach Flu is a euphemism for gastroenteritis. I'm pretty sure I did have it as I had all the symptoms of it for several days while not all of the symptoms of food poisoning. In addition, there had been an outbreak of it in that area. There is a slight difference between food poisoning and the stomach flu.
http://www.fitsugar.com/Difference-Between-Stomach-Bug-Food-Poisoning-993580
kewljason
Well-Known Member
Well, I don't agree with this one either. :laugh:
again 38 year old player, making $40K at BJ and $28k at part-time job. If he chooses to live in North Vegas where all his living expenses could be covered by his blackjack play alone, he is a professional BJ player, but since he knows his total income can support a somewhat better lifestyle somewhere else, maybe summerlin or a nicer condo close to the strip he is now not a professional BJ player.
No problem. I wasn't offended in the least. It's funny I started this thread so I wouldn't hijack the other thread and sure enough this one has been hijacked and turned into what the definition of a professional bj player is. I think we've already had this debate in the past on another thread.
kewljason
Well-Known Member
Yeah, sorry about that. We aren't very good at staying on topic in this community. :laugh: And that definition topic always seems to get folks riled up.
Kind of funny. What one calls one self is really irrelevant. Each person knows whether they play professionally or not. 
Your initial topic was indeed a good one (foodstamps and gov't housing aside..:laugh
and one that should be useful to players thinking of heading down this path. The thought process should involve a lot more than "can I make enough to pay my rent and buy food". It's a whole lifestyle decision. Blue Efficacy
Well-Known Member
kewljason
Well-Known Member
An AP took a sucker bet
Funny one, blue.
I was actually told it was required in order to qualify for the mortgage. I wonder if I had really balked at such a demand if that really would have ended the deal? Doesn't matter. I don't consider it a sucker bet. I actually like the idea that if disaster struck, I would be ok for a while.
kewljason
Well-Known Member
Insurance is always a sucker bet, unless the count is high.
So unless you predicted there's a higher chance of a disaster (the ten) striking, you took a sucker bet
How about this: I live in las Vegas which has a high crime rate. I live and play in the casino district which attracts a bad element. I carry enough cash to make me a target. Those three make the count +3, which is the threshold for taking insurance.
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Blackjack Avenger "I Will Avenge Thee"
All real world insurance is negative ev. However, insurance is also wealth protecting. This is Kewel's home; probably a large part of his wealth, so to protect the assest he has done the correct thing. Also, I think you are required to have mortgage insurance, the bank probably would have denied the loan without it. Finally, if he were to lose his home in a fire, it may be quite crippling to his career. So to be conservative and keep playing he had to protect his largest asset. Wouldn't it be awful if he lost his home in a fire and then the stress and increased expenses knock him out of the game?
Even in investmet strategy there are ways to insure against negative markets, but will lower your overall return. I want to say put options being an example or perhapas precious metals or even dare I say, food!
the threshold for taking insurance.
All real world insurance is negative ev. However, insurance is also wealth protecting. This is Kewel's home; probably a large part of his wealth, so to protect the assest he has done the correct thing. Also, I think you are required to have mortgage insurance, the bank probably would have denied the loan without it. Finally, if he were to lose his home in a fire, it may be quite crippling to his career. So to be conservative and keep playing he had to protect his largest asset. Wouldn't it be awful if he lost his home in a fire and then the stress and increased expenses knock him out of the game?
Even in investmet strategy there are ways to insure against negative markets, but will lower your overall return. I want to say put options being an example or perhapas precious metals or even dare I say, food!
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zengrifter
Banned
Where is Clark Cant? zg
zengrifter
Banned
Psssst, BP, try the uh .. silver. zg
I'm not sure someone who has diabetes or some other very costly disease would agree with you. Often times, insurance companies will lose money with these folks. That is why, they won't cover preexisting conditions many times when you try to get insurance on your own.
kewljason
Well-Known Member
When Thunder started this thread, I really thought it might be useful to some people thinking about taking this route. And maybe it has. But the thread as taken some funny directions not anticipated. :laugh: Recent post has come back to mention food stamps and govt housing. This is one area I just can't get over. I bet there is some low limit counter out there who is on some sort of government assistant program, which seems like such a contradiction to me. Maybe in Atlantic City, although doubtful as there aren't any/many low limit games any more. Maybe living in the downtown Vegas area, or anywhere in Vegas. Maybe Reno.
Reminds me of a friend I have that is a professional poker player. When things are going well, he lives at one of the many weekly places on paradise like Holiday Royale. Sometimes one of the many Seigle suites locations that somehow offer free food with rent? But when things are going bad, he sleeps in his car (or my sofa if the weather is bad...:laugh This seems right along the same lines as a professional player on assistance. If that's your situation, you really need to re-evaluate your career choice. :laugh:
Reminds me of a friend I have that is a professional poker player. When things are going well, he lives at one of the many weekly places on paradise like Holiday Royale. Sometimes one of the many Seigle suites locations that somehow offer free food with rent? But when things are going bad, he sleeps in his car (or my sofa if the weather is bad...:laugh
This seems right along the same lines as a professional player on assistance. If that's your situation, you really need to re-evaluate your career choice. :laugh: