three card poker cover

[Jack_Black]

Mr. _Black, you're getting way too bent out of shape about this. As already pointed out, all the needed info is readily available on a popular web site.

Also, OCP is a brutal game due to its high variance. Many who primarily HC avoid the game like the plague. One HCer I know refers to playing OCP as gambling. Unless you play a ton of it or have a team playing so you get a lot of play, I believe he's right.

Brilliant. as if one popular site having the info isn't enough, let's make it two popular sites. Not to say that Ocp is my favorite game, but it's to say that I prefer not helping casinos protect their games.

some variance figures:

OCP 2.89
UTH 23.12
JOB 19.5
FPDW 25.8
FPDDB 45.58

so only OCP is considered gambling huh?

 

[21forme]

OCP 2.89
UTH 23.12
JOB 19.5
FPDW 25.8
FPDDB 45.58

so only OCP is considered gambling huh?

Don't know where you got that number, but I believe it's WAAAAY off.

 

[PonyPrincess]

Brilliant. as if one popular site having the info isn't enough, let's make it two popular sites. Not to say that Ocp is my favorite game, but it's to say that I prefer not helping casinos protect their games.

some variance figures:

OCP 2.89
UTH 23.12
JOB 19.5
FPDW 25.8
FPDDB 45.58

so only OCP is considered gambling huh?

A big difference is I could play 1200 hands of vp an hour for 20hrs, if I had to. I agree with Jack_Black though but also realistically you could find more than what's posted here just by searching old threads.

 

[mjbballar23]

Brilliant. as if one popular site having the info isn't enough, let's make it two popular sites. Not to say that Ocp is my favorite game, but it's to say that I prefer not helping casinos protect their games.

some variance figures:

OCP 2.89
UTH 23.12
JOB 19.5
FPDW 25.8
FPDDB 45.58

so only OCP is considered gambling huh?

Jack_Black

someday i hope you can look back on this post and realize how silly it is.

You seem to have some sort of infatuation with ocp. When longevity is not taken into account, i pretty much consider it on the same level of a good counting game. Throw in some errors, full table, and any time played on relief and your looking at a pretty shitastic game.

 

[Jack_Black]

Don't know where you got that number, but I believe it's WAAAAY off.

WHY do you always assume I'm wrong? For the past year that I've known you, you just always assume I must be wrong. If you believe it's WAAAAY off, then why aren't you proving me wrong with formulas and/or citations? You just BELIEVE I'm wrong and so it must be true?

Where do you think I got these numbers? Do you think I spend my time reading John Patrick's books?

You have the book I'm using, look it up.

 

[Jack_Black]

Jack_Black

someday i hope you can look back on this post and realize how silly it is.

You seem to have some sort of infatuation with ocp. When longevity is not taken into account, i pretty much consider it on the same level of a good counting game. Throw in some errors, full table, and any time played on relief and your looking at a pretty shitastic game.

Did I not start with a disclaimer on how it is NOT my favorite game? Did I not state that I prefer to protect a satisfactory game from the eyes of casino personnel?

I don't make errors, I don't play at full tables, and I don't play relief dealers. But then again, I have a pretty solid place with tons of "good" dealers and no heat. Scouting pays.

 

[21forme]

WHY do you always assume I'm wrong? For the past year that I've known you, you just always assume I must be wrong. If you believe it's WAAAAY off, then why aren't you proving me wrong with formulas and/or citations? You just BELIEVE I'm wrong and so it must be true?

Where do you think I got these numbers? Do you think I spend my time reading John Patrick's books?

You have the book I'm using, look it up.

First, calm down. Second, I don't always assume you're wrong.

It's simply I have more experience at this than you do. As I've told you, I've had OCP sessions where I lost 20 ante bets in 5 minutes and others where I've won 70 ante bets in 25 minutes. Another difference between the games you've listed those numbers is one tends to bet considerably more at OCP than VP or UTH. You don't play a $25 or $50 JoB machine, do you?

Go back to The Book and read from p 336 forward, particularly the section on p 337 labeled "Variance dangerous."

I know you've pretty much stopped playing BJ, looking for better and/or lower variance opportunities. I prefer to count at BJ than HC at OCP.

 

[Southpaw]

Brilliant. as if one popular site having the info isn't enough, let's make it two popular sites. Not to say that Ocp is my favorite game, but it's to say that I prefer not helping casinos protect their games.

some variance figures:

OCP 2.89
UTH 23.12
JOB 19.5
FPDW 25.8
FPDDB 45.58

so only OCP is considered gambling huh?

I believe the variance in OCP is actually 3.0336. It is not fair to draw the conclusions you are trying to by only looking at variance because the EV is not the same for all of these games. A decent UTH game may have much higher variance, but it more than makes up for the high variance in a number of ways, one of them being EV.

Spaw

 

[mjbballar23]

Did I not start with a disclaimer on how it is NOT my favorite game? Did I not state that I prefer to protect a satisfactory game from the eyes of casino personnel?

I don't make errors, I don't play at full tables, and I don't play relief dealers. But then again, I have a pretty solid place with tons of "good" dealers and no heat. Scouting pays.

ok thats fine. But do you realize why you cannot use variance numbers on their own to compare different games?

Also the guy that says OCP is gambling would likely also say that the rest of those games you listed are also gambling, with some exceptions...

 

[Jack_Black]

21: Do you not think that I've lost that much? I've been in the hole by 120 units, and a majority of it was from a 1 hour session. But I've also lost 600 units 3x in BJ.

Why are you comparing variance in games if you're not going to have the same unit size? Of course 3cp will technically have bigger variance if your unit size is bigger. But if you compare them with the same unit size, now take a look at the variance. Also, take a look at BR requirements on say, FPDW vs 3cp for 3% ROR. Huge difference, is an understatement. 5645 units for FPDW, 29693 units for FPDDB and ______ for 3cp.

Southpaw: can you try and pay attention when you read before responding? first of all 2.89 is A correct number, look at it again. besides, do you think 3.03 is big difference?

The argument started on the basis of ONLY variance. 21forme claimed that variance is the reason why APs avoid this game. No other values were mentioned. But any dolt can figure out that edge is a key factor!

MJ: The guy basically considers anything with less then 10% edge to be gambling, which is kinda true. This includes counting and certain promos. if that's his deal, then that's his deal. I prefer to put games on a hierarchy of preference, playing the best I can first, then working my way down.

I'm not gonna respond on this thread anymore. I completely disagree with the idea of posting any kind of helpful info for casinos.

 

[cucuso4]

Whatever you do, please don't leave the table the instant relief is on multiple times. Just check the time and take a bathroom break 2-3 minutes before relief's arrival.[/QUOTE

Leaving just a little before relief comes in is also my preference. Make it a meal break or gotta find my wife break. Anything to justify staying away through the releif. You can usually do this a couple of times per shift.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

Jack Black may be coming across as a little standoffish in his posts in this thread, but he has a pretty good point—what's the value of discussing this in public?

Sure, the cat is pretty far out of the bag on this game, but you'd be surprised at how quickly an AP can be recognized—and how quickly and easily an entire casino can be made unplayable—by someone who understands the nature of AP at this game. Why make their job easier?

Just because playing this game has been deemed somewhat passé by those who prefer 10%+ edges (BTW, look at the variance of some of those games! The alternative would be BJ with additional information, but I suppose the omission of several aggressive plays that bring the edge below 10%, such as not hitting hard 17+, would bring even that game into "gambling" territory) doesn't mean that there aren't still people out there making money playing it. I understand that the OP's intentions were good, but issues of this nature should be discussed by PM, simple as that.

 

[flyingwind]

Very insightful. Thanks everyone. Now, can we nuke this thread?

 

[Dyepaintball12]

It doesn't need to be deleted. It is no secret to anyone that you can beat 3CP. But with such insane variance IDK why people bother.

 

[Sonny]

But with such insane variance IDK why people bother.

Because half the time the variance is profitable. :laugh:

-Sonny-

 

[laserjet]

Would someone care to tell me what uth stands for? Thanks again.

 

[Zerg]

Would someone care to tell me what uth stands for? Thanks again.

Also sensitive info, but since just knowing what it stands for doesn't get you even close to being able to make the play ill share: unusually tilted highball (code name for biased roulette.)

 

[Jack_Black]

Would someone care to tell me what uth stands for? Thanks again.

Fine! I'll share! It stands for Under The hood. no wait, I think it's Urinary Tract Hematoma.

 

[moo321]

Lonesome gambler is right. Knowing the game is beatable, even how it's beatable, is less dangerous than knowing how to pick off who is beating the game.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

I might also add that, while I completely sympathize with laserjet, as I've been in a similar position in the past, his post is a perfect example of why this subject doesn't need to be discussed in depth in a public forum. Most serious players have experienced situations that will make this point hit home.

Laserjet—you're honestly not missing anything. Everyone else, let it go.