tips to next level

[ScottH]

I have never said there is no chance of anyone becoming a pro. I said there is absolutely no chance of it if they don't think its hard work and don't plan to work hard at it. I wish no ill will on anyone, as a matter of fact I hope anyone who has a dream can achieve it. But you insult me and anyone else who has had any success in whatever field they're in, by saying it wasn't through hard work or effort that they achieved it. I wasn't born with a god given talent to play this game, I needed to learn it, and then I needed to bust my ass to master it. You can claim all you want how its not that hard to play blackjack professionally, but that comes from what experience? Is that the opinion of a blackjack player who's barely or not even old enough to legally get into a Vegas casino? Does this opinion come from your being on the road 3 days a week for 5 months straight? Or from your experiences of playing in other countries trying to move your bankroll without losing it in customs? Or maybe its from countless hours of research on how to play this game totally undetectable to the powers that be, that would love to shut down your livelihood due to the godawful disgrace of using your brain to play their game. No that wouldn't be your opinion because all that can be mindnumbing work, which of course is not really needed according to you. I think your opinion comes from someone a couple of years removed from puberty living in North Dakota that thought they found an easy way to make a buck. I honestly wish you good luck in your venture, but I believe you're likely to find hard luck if you don't change your tune.

dpmonk2003 this post was not intended towards you, as I don't feel you fall into the category that I have been addressing. Unfortunately answers to your original post caused the topic to get a little off track. I did however try offer advice in my first post of this thread.

You're making it sound as if I said it were easy. I acknowledged the fact that it is really hard to become a pro blackjack player, but it is not as impossible as it people make it sound. It takes extreme dedication and hard work to be great at ANYTHING. I was just saying that it isn't necessarily impossibly hard to be a pro, it just takes a lot of WORK. I was saying this to imply that almost anyone can become a pro if they work hard enough. I simply don't think it is limited to a special few gifted people.

For example, in highschool I always got straight A's. I didn't just get A's, I would always get near 100%. To a third party it seemed all too easy. People would say to me, "It must be nice to be smart". My getting straight A's was not about me being any smarter than anyone else, it was due to the fact that I WORKED HARDER than them. I spent hours of studying every night to earn that grade, I didn't just happen to be gifted enough to just get A's without any work.

Because I got all A's do I think I am smarter than everyone else? No. I think almost anyone can get all A's if they put enough time and effort into it, just like I think almost anyone can become a pro blackjack player if they also put the needed time and effort into it. That's all I was saying. I fully understand that being a full-time blackjack pro takes A LOT of training and dedication, but I believe that more people could do it if they didn't just discount the idea because so many people make it sound impossible.

I wasn't trying to discount what you do, and I wasn't trying to say it was by any means easy. I just was trying to say that I believe that almost anyone can do almost anything if they put their mind to it.

 

[Bojack1]

You're making it sound as if I said it were easy. I acknowledged the fact that it is really hard to become a pro blackjack player, but it is not as impossible as it people make it sound. It takes extreme dedication and hard work to be great at ANYTHING. I was just saying that it isn't necessarily impossibly hard to be a pro, it just takes a lot of WORK. I was saying this to imply that almost anyone can become a pro if they work hard enough. I simply don't think it is limited to a special few gifted people.

For example, in highschool I always got straight A's. I didn't just get A's, I would always get near 100%. To a third party it seemed all too easy. People would say to me, "It must be nice to be smart". My getting straight A's was not about me being any smarter than anyone else, it was due to the fact that I WORKED HARDER than them. I spent hours of studying every night to earn that grade, I didn't just happen to be gifted enough to just get A's without any work.

Because I got all A's do I think I am smarter than everyone else? No. I think almost anyone can get all A's if they put enough time and effort into it, just like I think almost anyone can become a pro blackjack player if they also put the needed time and effort into it. That's all I was saying. I fully understand that being a full-time blackjack pro takes A LOT of training and dedication, but I believe that more people could do it if they didn't just discount the idea because so many people make it sound impossible.

I wasn't trying to discount what you do, and I wasn't trying to say it was by any means easy. I just was trying to say that I believe that almost anyone can do almost anything if they put their mind to it.

This post I will agree with. I think your boy supercoolmancool might have a different opinion than this. No matter, if what you state hear is the truth than there is a possibility you will accomplish what you seek out to do. Good luck to you.

 

[ScottH]

This post I will agree with. I think your boy supercoolmancool might have a different opinion than this. No matter, if what you state hear is the truth than there is a possibility you will accomplish what you seek out to do. Good luck to you.

Thanks!

Although supercoolmancool is one of the most extreme persons I've met. I'm sure he will be willing to work hard enough to be able to shuffle track. In fact, he was the one who brought up the idea to me. We are both at the same level as far as counting, and we are both just starting to learn shuffle tracking. We both just bought 24 decks of casino cards for practice.

I find it hard to start a project when there is so much too learn at once, so I need to take it one step at a time. I think I will start with honing my deck estimation skills. I am pretty good already at deck estimation, but I will use Casino Verite to get it down to quarter deck accuracy. I know that you need to be even better than that for shuffle tracking though.

Bojack, you should either post or PM me with the best ways to practice. Or like a list of things to get down before moving on to the next step. Also, I would appreciate if you could give some methods of practice that you think work well. I know that you probably don't want to publicly post too much info, but at least PM me with as much info as you can give out. I understand that any info you give out can hurt your own profession. Thanks if advance for any info.

 

[golfnut101]

experience

Hey ScottH

How many actual hours of play would you say you have under belt ?

 

[eps6724]

howdy to the Jugglers.:joker:

I am also a juggling feind and I must say, its nice to see other jugglers anywhere, so a big hello to my fellow toss-up friend. I hope your cards fall as perfect as a beautiful cascade.:juggle:

Kender:

Thanks, I'll pass it on to him. He's the juggler, I'm just the lowly magician. How he does it is beyond me. Everything I do that he decides to do (juggling, balloons, fakir stuff), he does better, faster and cleaner. Kid could probably learn BS, card counting, and 4 different systems in 10 minutes. Sometimes that kid makes me SOOOOO mad!

But juggling-magic-welding-burger joints-blackjack-as long as you're happy and not hurting anyone else, does it really matter?

Luck to all! Oh, supercooll-as far as 4 ball juggling-skip it and go to 5 ball. Even patterns are much harder.


eps6724

 

[ScottH]

Hey ScottH

How many actual hours of play would you say you have under belt ?

As far as casino experience, a rough estimate of 40 or 50 hours. I really wasn't keeping track of hours played, but I have played about 15 sessions, most of them being longer than recomended due to long travel times.

I would have in a lot more time but the games I've seen so far in my area are not so great for straight counting.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

As far as casino experience, a rough estimate of 40 or 50 hours. I really wasn't keeping track of hours played, but I have played about 15 sessions, most of them being longer than recomended due to long travel times.

I would have in a lot more time but the games I've seen so far in my area are not so great for straight counting.

Actually your area has some of the better games for counting. I've played most of them and analyzed the shuffles, and they tend to be very tough.

Not to hassle you or anything, but you do need a lot more experience in casinos before you're ready for advanced AP. One of the harder things to pick up on is knowing when you are too fatigued to perform accurately. Another is knowing what behaviors and betting practices look out of place in a given environment. At least get a few N0's in at counting so you get the feel of the swings.

 

[ScottH]

Actually your area has some of the better games for counting. I've played most of them and analyzed the shuffles, and they tend to be very tough.

Yes, they have fairly complicated shuffles. You think fargo, ND has some of the better games for counting? Not from what I have seen. The place I went to was 4 decks with about 60% pen., not my idea of a good game.

There is a 2-deck game with about 80-90% pen dealer dependent, which is an amazing game, but I have already been kicked out there. I was kicked out due to my marathon sessions, which are generally frowned upon. But it wouldn't be worth it for me to drive 1.5 hours and play a 90 min session.

You should be more specific about where these better games are, because I have yet to see them. I should also say that the game I mentioned above was dealing at 60% penetration (70% max) without me playing, so it was not a countermeasure, it was the standard cut. There are more places for me to check, but I didn't have high hopes after seeing a 4 deck cut at 60%.

At least get a few N0's in at counting so you get the feel of the swings.

I know firsthand about big swings. I have been down over 80 units in a session 3 times in my short AP career. I have been gambling for a long time so I can emotionally handle the swings.

 

[ScottH]

I just was trying to say that I believe that almost anyone can do almost anything if they put their mind to it.

I was just thinking that might be a little extreme. I believe in the general idea of that, but saying almost anyone can do anything is probably exaggerating a little bit.

There are physical and mental limitations that might make it so certain people just can't shuffle track no matter how hard they try. Like if someone has bad eyesight so they can't estimate decks properly, they will never be a shuffle tracker. Or some people just might not be able to do the arithmetic fast enough to make the needed calculations.

So saying almost anyone can shuffle track is a bit too optimistic of people. But I do think more people COULD if they put in enough effort, but that is why there are so few shuffle trackers, most people that want to become professional blackjack players aren't willing to work hard enough to shuffle track.

I don't even know if I want to put in the effort needed or not, but I will try. I just hope I have the physical and mental abiltity to do it... but I THINK I do.

 

[mdlbj]

Shuffle tracking does not take brains or stamina. It takes knowledge and practice. Sure counting can give one an advantage; coupled with tracking you will have a greater advantage. As you say ScottH, it just takes hard work. I agree. Yet at the same time, I think most people who stick with counting, drink while they play hence, the 10 dollar limit tables talked about often here are a norm. If they would stay away from the drink and watch their play improve.. Well thats a whole other chapter.

I was just thinking that might be a little extreme. I believe in the general idea of that, but saying almost anyone can do anything is probably exaggerating a little bit.

There are physical and mental limitations that might make it so certain people just can't shuffle track no matter how hard they try. Like if someone has bad eyesight so they can't estimate decks properly, they will never be a shuffle tracker. Or some people just might not be able to do the arithmetic fast enough to make the needed calculations.

So saying almost anyone can shuffle track is a bit too optimistic of people. But I do think more people COULD if they put in enough effort, but that is why there are so few shuffle trackers, most people that want to become professional blackjack players aren't willing to work hard enough to shuffle track.

I don't even know if I want to put in the effort needed or not, but I will try. I just hope I have the physical and mental abiltity to do it... but I THINK I do.

 

[supercoolmancool]

I was just thinking that might be a little extreme. I believe in the general idea of that, but saying almost anyone can do anything is probably exaggerating a little bit.

There are physical and mental limitations that might make it so certain people just can't shuffle track no matter how hard they try. Like if someone has bad eyesight so they can't estimate decks properly, they will never be a shuffle tracker. Or some people just might not be able to do the arithmetic fast enough to make the needed calculations.

So saying almost anyone can shuffle track is a bit too optimistic of people. But I do think more people COULD if they put in enough effort, but that is why there are so few shuffle trackers, most people that want to become professional blackjack players aren't willing to work hard enough to shuffle track.

I don't even know if I want to put in the effort needed or not, but I will try. I just hope I have the physical and mental abiltity to do it... but I THINK I do.

"You gotta believe."- Spyro the Dragon

 

[sagefr0g]

"You gotta believe."- Spyro the Dragon

gosh supercool that's almost voodoo comming from you! :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Yes, they have fairly complicated shuffles. You think fargo, ND has some of the better games for counting? Not from what I have seen. The place I went to was 4 decks with about 60% pen., not my idea of a good game.

There is a 2-deck game with about 80-90% pen dealer dependent, which is an amazing game, but I have already been kicked out there. I was kicked out due to my marathon sessions, which are generally frowned upon. But it wouldn't be worth it for me to drive 1.5 hours and play a 90 min session.

You should be more specific about where these better games are, because I have yet to see them. I should also say that the game I mentioned above was dealing at 60% penetration (70% max) without me playing, so it was not a countermeasure, it was the standard cut. There are more places for me to check, but I didn't have high hopes after seeing a 4 deck cut at 60%.

Go east, young man. Recommend a subscription to CBJN; it usually pays for itself in EV on the first session.

I know firsthand about big swings. I have been down over 80 units in a session 3 times in my short AP career. I have been gambling for a long time so I can emotionally handle the swings.

:laugh: [slapping thigh] 80 units! That's a good one!

Try 400 units, in a 4 hour session. Then you will start to have an idea of what AP swings are like. And that's just for card counting. Many other techniques have higher variance and larger swings still.

 

[sagefr0g]

:laugh: [slapping thigh] 80 units! That's a good one!

Try 400 units, in a 4 hour session. Then you will start to have an idea of what AP swings are like. And that's just for card counting. Many other techniques have higher variance and larger swings still.

400 units in 4 hours ! good God man, i know stop loss's are nonsense but such a hit would definately make me wonder. yah, it's true that if you put a stop to it that it could just go on an continue the next go around but damm how much pain can one guy stand in such a short space of time.
you must certainly have intestinal fortitude to forge forward after that one.
hats off to ya.

 

[jimpenn]

A few times I have been down 400 units ($10,000) in a four hour sessions, and have also been up 600 during same period. I don't feel it's something to get all excited about.

 

[ScottH]

Try 400 units, in a 4 hour session. Then you will start to have an idea of what AP swings are like. And that's just for card counting. Many other techniques have higher variance and larger swings still.

Well, according to what I know about AP, I have a better chance of winning 400 units in 4 hours than losing 400 units in 4 hours. I'll take my chances!

 

[jimpenn]

I'm 58 (retired) and made five out-of-state trips last month. I'm totally spent from the travel and mental pressure. Whoever came up with the $10,000 annual travel budget is cutting it a little low. No question, this is hard work. Sitting at the table is the easy part.

 

[sagefr0g]

A few times I have been down 400 units ($10,000) in a four hour sessions, and have also been up 600 during same period. I don't feel it's something to get all excited about.

ten grand down? :yikes: hell i slobber all over my self if i win 6 units ($30.00)
and whine :cry: like a baby if i lose 6 units....

I'm 58 (retired) and made five out-of-state trips last month. I'm totally spent from the travel and mental pressure. Whoever came up with the $10,000 annual travel budget is cutting it a little low. No question, this is hard work. Sitting at the table is the easy part.

me too .... same age n' retired :cat:
travel budget ? hell i'm so cheap i ride my bicycle to my local joint to save gas :cool2:

 

[jimpenn]

Monk...Your a young guy and seem to have the drive and ambition to become a professional BJ player. A lot of professionals have given you some good advice in this thread and I get the feeling your ears are clogged. Safefrog said, " ...backcounting is good if you can get away with it." I agree. With the exception of Atlantic City I don't think you wil last a week backcounting locally...Sagefrog also brought this to your attention. Bojack attempted to explain all the road blocks you will come up against and I get the impression you think he's crazy. He is right. I can afford to travel and play and I do it with a passion. I have only been seriously playing for a couple years and there is no way around avoiding the dark days at the tables. I make four 3 day trips a month out of state and it's extremely difficult on the mind and body. The travel and mental drain I experience is difficult. The difference between you and I is I have a degree and built and sold two companies prior to attempting to play at a level that is rewarding and profitable. The major difference is I have an unlimited bankroll and don't have to cancel a planned trip because of lack of funds. One poster pointed out the corporate greed and stockholder's who own today's casinos, and trust me they are going to continue to "shave" the game to continue to increase profits. The future of BJ, in my opinion, is up in the air. I really don't think they are going to make it any easier in the future. Start building your own business for the next ten years before you attempt to play BJ full time. School is not for everyone, but the only way you will make any money today is to be self employed with an intense drive and motivation. If you can't do it in this arena you will never make it playing full time BJ at this time in your life. The posters suggesting you to continue your dream are full of it. I don't think one person who has encouraged you to play now has made any substantial money in their life. They are just beginners. Sort of going into battle without basic training, and field experience. I read where on poster has 50 hour of playing time. LOL A true AP has that in a week in many cases. You mentioned Barona. Sanford will pick you out within two hours because he basically lives and works at the place, fully comp'd for life. Good Luck and please keep us informed of your next 5 trips. That should be enough to teach you this is no easy trip.

 

[supercoolmancool]

Monk...Your a young guy and seem to have the drive and ambition to become a professional BJ player. A lot of professionals have given you some good advice in this thread and I get the feeling your ears are clogged. Safefrog said, " ...backcounting is good if you can get away with it." I agree. With the exception of Atlantic City I don't think you wil last a week backcounting locally...Sagefrog also brought this to your attention. Bojack attempted to explain all the road blocks you will come up against and I get the impression you think he's crazy. He is right. I can afford to travel and play and I do it with a passion. I have only been seriously playing for a couple years and there is no way around avoiding the dark days at the tables. I make four 3 day trips a month out of state and it's extremely difficult on the mind and body. The travel and mental drain I experience is difficult. The difference between you and I is I have a degree and built and sold two companies prior to attempting to play at a level that is rewarding and profitable. The major difference is I have an unlimited bankroll and don't have to cancel a planned trip because of lack of funds. One poster pointed out the corporate greed and stockholder's who own today's casinos, and trust me they are going to continue to "shave" the game to continue to increase profits. The future of BJ, in my opinion, is up in the air. I really don't think they are going to make it any easier in the future. Start building your own business for the next ten years before you attempt to play BJ full time. School is not for everyone, but the only way you will make any money today is to be self employed with an intense drive and motivation. If you can't do it in this arena you will never make it playing full time BJ at this time in your life. The posters suggesting you to continue your dream are full of it. I don't think one person who has encouraged you to play now has made any substantial money in their life. They are just beginners. Sort of going into battle without basic training, and field experience. I read where on poster has 50 hour of playing time. LOL A true AP has that in a week in many cases. You mentioned Barona. Sanford will pick you out within two hours because he basically lives and works at the place, fully comp'd for life. Good Luck and please keep us informed of your next 5 trips. That should be enough to teach you this is no easy trip.

Did you say that you were a speed counter in another one of your posts?