Tough times for LV

[moo321]

I love playing stud and draw. But hold'em is far and away the best game for the pros, and the donkeys love playing it. Good for everyone.

 

[InPlay]

I agree with the Monkey.

the Casinos should get back to basics, and do what made vegas great to begin with.

as for the younger crowd. they generally dont have the work ethic of the generation before them, and therefore a lousy bankroll. why promote that kind of traffic?

If that model was profitable for the casino it would be there but it's not is it ? It's not what you want but it's what you get. You can either take it or leave it. By checking the number of casinos in the world MOST people are loveing it.

 

[InPlay]

My theory is that today's whiskey-swilling bullies are all sitting in front of their computers day trading and flipping real estate to prove how tough they are, instead of being big shots at the casinos.

And what's wrong with that? You have to change with the times or get left behind.

 

[Preston]

Vegas is not losing money solely on the economy...

Not too many years ago.. the places you could gamble were few (vegas, Atlantic City, indian reservations) but now all of the states that border Ohio, for example, have gambling now in some way shape or form beyond lottery.

so people don't have to travel as far to get action. Also, they don't have to pay outrageous airfare.

I love Vegas. But My bankroll does fine in Tunica or Biloxi.

 

[Bojack1]

No the old time gambler sat at a blackjack table all night with a cigar and a bottle of whiskey playing $1000 a hand, and win or lose his gaming was a form of self-expression. He wanted to win but he'd be satisfied with being respected for his risk-taking. Same mentality as a brawler or a bull rider- the urban cowboy. Las Vegas was built by guys like that. But if you gave him a bad game or bad service he would feel disrespected and let you know it.

That kind of gambler doesn't seem to exist anymore. My theory is that today's whiskey-swilling bullies are all sitting in front of their computers day trading and flipping real estate to prove how tough they are, instead of being big shots at the casinos.

This is a romanticized notion of the old time gambler, and by no means represents the masses that make up the profits for the Vegas casinos. Any player playing $1000 per hand is either an AP with a fat bankroll, or a wealthy gambler who can hit the casino with 10's of thousands of dollars at a time. Neither of which floods the casinos enough to help or hurt their bottom lines. Las Vegas revenue is built by average people gambling, and looking for the experience they don't find in their everyday life. The truth is the economic situation being what it is, people are spending less and revenues are down. Changing games won't matter one bit. As soon as a persons economic situation improves, so will their ability to spend. For the general mass public that gambles in Vegas that means when they have the money they will spend it regardless of the rules of the game. Most look at gambling in general as easy money, either lost or gained. There are very few students of the game, or hardcore gamblers. Of course there are some, but too few to make most Vegas casinos less profitable if they left. Look around you the next time you're in a casino, how many of these people would listen to you if you told them 6:5 blackjack is a terrible game to play, or if you told the old lady at the slots that she would have better odds at playing blackjack, or going up to the couple playing a mindless game of roulette and telling them that they need to play craps or baccarat if they want to close their odds of losing.

Vegas will never hurt too bad, and never for too long. In comparison to the rest of the economy I'd believe most businesses would love to take Vegas' modest decline in revenue as compared to their own. I wouldn't worry about Vegas any time soon. As long as human nature stands at what it is, Vegas will always have a job.

 

[moo321]

It's all about market segmentation. You can nickle and dime the donkeys, give them 6-5 and shitty slot machines. Or you can go after bigger bettors, who demand better odds. Neither one is right or wrong, but I don't ever expect everything to go 6-5, nor do I expect 6-5 to ever disappear.

Do you want to go to K Mart or Nordstrom? Neither model is right or wrong, and neither model is going anywhere.

 

[shadroch]

If you are marketing to a bunch of conventioneers,you can bring in any kind of games you want.
I was at the Trop yesterday,and guys from the Post Office convention were three thick around the Big Wheel.

 

[EasyRhino]

No the old time gambler sat at a blackjack table all night with a cigar and a bottle of whiskey playing $1000 a hand.

Dude, in the old days, there wasn't that much money in the entire world.

Anyway, don't forget that there is also a tough market for snobbish video poker players out there. Althought I think the battle's being waged at locals casinos.

 

[WRX]

It seems most of us agree on a lot of points.

Echoing AM's proposal--I think that the industry has made a mistake in deciding that every casino needs to have the same atmosphere, and to cater to the same crowd, with repulsive 20-something thugs being the target customers. Every store plays the same crappy music. They all have decibel levels slightly below that of a steel mill. Do ALL casino customers want that? When did they decide that we need to be entertained with music piped into the parking garages, even? The last time you wanted to make a phone call in a casino, could you find a quiet place anywhere?

 

[InPlay]

It seems most of us agree on a lot of points.

Echoing AM's proposal--I think that the industry has made a mistake in deciding that every casino needs to have the same atmosphere, and to cater to the same crowd, with repulsive 20-something thugs being the target customers. Every store plays the same crappy music. They all have decibel levels slightly below that of a steel mill. Do ALL casino customers want that? When did they decide that we need to be entertained with music piped into the parking garages, even? The last time you wanted to make a phone call in a casino, could you find a quiet place anywhere?

This is how the casino and advertizers target their piegon. This is why everthing in most casino works the music, the color scheme and everthing else. It's a proven FACT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_message

A subliminal message is a signal or message embedded in another medium, designed to pass below the normal limits of perception. These messages are unrecognizable by the conscious mind, but in certain situations can affect the subconscious or deeper mind and later actions or attitudes.

Subliminal techniques have occasionally been used in advertising and propaganda; the purpose, the effectiveness, and the frequency of the application of such techniques is debated.

The term subliminal means "beneath a limen," a sensory threshold. Subliminal is directly derived from the Latin words sub and limin. "Sub" meaning under, and "limin" meaning threshold. These two words out together literally mean under the threshold.

 

[bj bob]

Here's my business plan for a casino:

Limited games:

Blackjack, single deck, average pen, hand shuffled and dealt. No sidebets, normal rules. Dealers look and talk like dealers instead of busboys.

Craps, traditional layout.

A poker room of course, but let's deal some draw and stud instead of this made-for-TV poker.

An area with baccarat and single-zero roulette for the E.T.'s

A sports book with a real oddsmaker writing the lines.

Slot machines, traditional reel spinners.

Liquor: real booze as opposed to rail booze, served by seductive waitresses that you're allowed to touch a little bit.

Food: serve food such that your patrons remember what a good meal they had there and are eager to come back. That's all, not so hard no?

Entertainment: a singer and small band in the casino, singing real songs not this jungle-jump music the kids are into. And a theater with classic LV-style shows.

There. Now would this casino have a revenue problem?

I'm pretty much on board with that scenario. There's plenty of room for a variety of clubs in a large market. The upscale clubs such as Wynn's and The Bellagio have carved out their niche catering to the wealthy class, the Gen X'ers have their Hooters and Hark Rock etc. whereas the clueless, pathetic tourists have their tinsel-ridden "theme parks" such as Paris and New York New York. There's something for almost everyone these days, except for the serious gambler who just wants good, solid games with a quietish atmosphere. I myself prefer a Western type club with a Mexican cantina/ restaurant,a good old fashioned Steak House along with USDA prime cocktail chickies. Throw in a good variety of German beer,some classic rock and country in the lounge and I'm a happy buckaroo.
As far as the games go, I'm all for fairly dealt SD, DOA, LS and for variety some good DOA, DAS, S17, LS DD with 75%+ pen. Not too much to ask, is it?
The good 'ol fruit on wheels slots sounds like a reel winner. I know they're a pain in the ass to maintain, but I still have that "feeling" that mechanical devices can be beaten vs. a pre-programmed computer. And, while we're at it why not throw in the old style ink and brush Keno tickets. I always loved taking a good snort of that stuff while at the Keno desk.
To round it all off, why not put the craps and poker dealers back in visors and arm garters? Why not make the joint look like a real casino instead of a cross between Disney Land and 5th Avenue?

 

[bj bob]

This is how the casino and advertizers target their piegon. This is why everthing in most casino works the music, the color scheme and everthing else. It's a proven FACT.


The term subliminal means "beneath a limen," a sensory threshold. Subliminal is directly derived from the Latin words sub and limin. "Sub" meaning under, and "limin" meaning threshold. These two words out together literally mean under the threshold.

Very good! You got an A- in your Latin test. Actually, the word is limine in this context. But anyway, there are, in fact many subliminal tricks used by the casinos to entice gamblers. Others classics include the reddish color decor throughout, the absense of clocks, the bright lights and the use of C-G-E tones on the payout of slot machines. I'm sure there are others, but that's all I can think of at the moment.

 

[Brutus]

I'm pretty much on board with that scenario. There's plenty of room for a variety of clubs in a large market. The upscale clubs such as Wynn's and The Bellagio have carved out their niche catering to the wealthy class, the Gen X'ers have their Hooters and Hark Rock etc. whereas the clueless, pathetic tourists have their tinsel-ridden "theme parks" such as Paris and New York New York. There's something for almost everyone these days, except for the serious gambler who just wants good, solid games with a quietish atmosphere. I myself prefer a Western type club with a Mexican cantina/ restaurant,a good old fashioned Steak House along with USDA prime cocktail chickies. Throw in a good variety of German beer,some classic rock and country in the lounge and I'm a happy buckaroo.
As far as the games go, I'm all for fairly dealt SD, DOA, LS and for variety some good DOA, DAS, S17, LS DD with 75%+ pen. Not too much to ask, is it?

same with me. vegas should offer up at least a taste of what made it great.

these arrogant and deaf corporations have got NOTHING on a regular guy running a shop, and offering something for the money. geez, much less somebody you can talk to, and see walking the floor.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Very good! You got an A- in your Latin test. Actually, the word is limine in this context. But anyway, there are, in fact many subliminal tricks used by the casinos to entice gamblers. Others classics include the reddish color decor throughout, the absense of clocks, the bright lights and the use of C-G-E tones on the payout of slot machines. I'm sure there are others, but that's all I can think of at the moment.

Wow, really, a C-major chord? That has some heavy religious implications. Switching from a minor to a major key signifies resolution and redemption in sacred music, and C-major itself is associated with spiritual perfection.

So I consider that trick quite blasphemous in the context of getting people to play slot machines. Ugh.

 

[golfnut101]

a long time ago, in a distant galaxy...

As far as the games go, I'm all for fairly dealt SD, DOA, LS and for variety some good DOA, DAS, S17, LS DD with 75%+ pen. Not too much to ask, is it?

A guy gets a woodie just reading about such conditions ! Its like a wooly mammoth..."did they really exist grampa ??!!"

 

[Automatic Monkey]

A guy gets a woodie just reading about such conditions ! Its like a wooly mammoth..."did they really exist grampa ??!!"

They still do, for a $100 max bet.

 

[Sonny]

A guy gets a woodie just reading about such conditions ! Its like a wooly mammoth..."did they really exist grampa ??!!"

They still do, for a $100 max bet.

Which one still exists? The mammoth, the erection or the BJ game? Actually, $100 will get you either of the three!

-Sonny-

 

[bj bob]

Wow, really, a C-major chord? That has some heavy religious implications. Switching from a minor to a major key signifies resolution and redemption in sacred music, and C-major itself is associated with spiritual perfection.

So I consider that trick quite blasphemous in the context of getting people to play slot machines. Ugh.

See Monk, now you don't have to worry about missing church on Sunday. You're already there! Just think, spirtual tunes in the background when making offerings at the table of sacrifice while in fear of eternal damnation by the high priest, the PB.:whip: