Typical N0 for a wong out -1 game?

[Stevel96a1]

and thats why i don't play right now, cause ZK mentioned his bankroll is entering a downward spiral , you go to youtube ben and colin started with 2grand ran it up to 11k from there 200k , is that real ZK or is it bullshit? he makes it sound so easy and the caisno are ever so happy to offer the game 21, i have real software that can mimic real shuffles and deal realistics shuffles that you would face in a casino and again my 100 unit buy in suffered a loss, will it happen everytime? no can it happen over 60 times yes

my hat is off to you ZK able to continue losing and able play through the bad swings (im sure its easier gambling with your winnings rather than money you earned from work) but still Bravo i personally couldnt count cards losing my first thousand and 2nd thousand and so on and so forth (maybe if it was cash i won at the casino maybe) but no i couldnt do it with my own cash

you should take a break and play FPDW games i would if i was in the LV area i always seem to trade 300$ for their 1,000$ on most nights on full paymachines

 

[KewlJ]

As I was just talking about in the 100 unit buy-in thread, the crazy thing about card counting is that even if you`re playing to a RoR of under 1% as I know you are, the swings are absolutely huge in relation to the amount of your total bankroll. Your examples above show it. I`ve personally gone through very similar swings, and it`s extremely stressful. When you lose a quarter of your bankroll in a couple months even after having a very low RoR, it feels unfathomable that it could happen. But it can and does on a regular basis. I think this aspect is something that isn`t talked about enough when people are talking about how much of a bankroll they may need. I remember Jabberwocky on BJTF saying you need 300 max bets which seemed like overkill to me... I now know he was exactly right.

SplitfaceD, I am so glad you are posting this information and sharing your experiences like this. I completely agree that the emotions of going through the swings and downturn is the toughest part of the game. It gets better after you have gone through them a few times, but never gets completely routine. And nothing, even knowing about the swings that are likely really prepares a player for them. It is sort of something you have to go through to understand.

This is exactly why I have always tried to share my experiences and journey as much as I could (sometimes too much). I think and hope it does help players, especially players going through severe variance to know that others go through it, and have gone through it and come out the other side.

And of course everyone handles it differently and some struggle with the emotions more than others as we have all witnessed with Mr Zenking. He gets really frustrated and vents almost crazily. You do what you gotta do.

 

[bjo32]

SplitfaceD, I am so glad you are posting this information and sharing your experiences like this. I completely agree that the emotions of going through the swings and downturn is the toughest part of the game. It gets better after you have gone through them a few times, but never gets completely routine. And nothing, even knowing about the swings that are likely really prepares a player for them. It is sort of something you have to go through to understand.

This is exactly why I have always tried to share my experiences and journey as much as I could (sometimes too much). I think and hope it does help players, especially players going through severe variance to know that others go through it, and have gone through it and come out the other side.

And of course everyone handles it differently and some struggle with the emotions more than others as we have all witnessed with Mr Zenking. He gets really frustrated and vents almost crazily. You do what you gotta do.

KewlJ, I want you to know your posts and honesty are appreciated. I’ve got more out of your posts than anybody else on these forums. Your experience has really helped my game and some of the people I play with. I take screen shots of your posts and send them to other people I play with. The thing I like about your posts is you share your bad swings and you are an advocate for simple counting systems, like Hilo. This helps us recreational type players understand just how brutal this game can be and why you need a big bankroll. Thank you!

 

[SplitFaceDisaster]

SplitfaceD, I am so glad you are posting this information and sharing your experiences like this. I completely agree that the emotions of going through the swings and downturn is the toughest part of the game. It gets better after you have gone through them a few times, but never gets completely routine. And nothing, even knowing about the swings that are likely really prepares a player for them. It is sort of something you have to go through to understand.

This is exactly why I have always tried to share my experiences and journey as much as I could (sometimes too much). I think and hope it does help players, especially players going through severe variance to know that others go through it, and have gone through it and come out the other side.

And of course everyone handles it differently and some struggle with the emotions more than others as we have all witnessed with Mr Zenking. He gets really frustrated and vents almost crazily. You do what you gotta do.

Yeah, it definitely helps me a lot when I hear others like you talk about your own experiences. Speaking of ZK; he and I share game info/war stories, and, like with you, hearing some of his swings in detail has really helped me not lose my mind also. It might be hard to imagine from some of his rants, but in real life he`s different than what he seems like online and has helped me stay positive/motivated through a lot of this. That`s why it`s so important to have forums like these and/or be in contact with other players. People who haven`t done this can`t possibly fathom what it can be like.

I know what you mean about being through it a few times and getting used to it. What`s funny is that I thought I had seen some ugly swings, but this time around (-2 SDs over a pretty big amount of hours) has shown me a better look at just how badly you can get smacked time after time after time. Pretty wild. It really tests how much of a beating you can take. I remember someone saying once that eventually you`ll lose so badly for so long that you start to question if counting even works. I know it does work, but I`ve gotten to the point of understanding exactly what they meant by that.

 

[KewlJ]

Also, KJ, I know you play this type of approach of white rabbit, so can you please comment on what your N0 is for this?

No I can't. I play too many different spreads, even using very different multiple spreads within the same session, which increases longevity, but plays havoc with variance and N0. So I just don't focus on N0 like some of you do. I accept the higher variance, which I am able to handle....don't like it, but am able to handle it, in return for increased longevity.

 

[KewlJ]

Yeah, it definitely helps me a lot when I hear others like you talk about your own experiences. Speaking of ZK; he and I share game info/war stories, and, like with you, hearing some of his swings in detail has really helped me not lose my mind also. It might be hard to imagine from some of his rants, but in real life he`s different than what he seems like online and has helped me stay positive/motivated through a lot of this. That`s why it`s so important to have forums like these and/or be in contact with other players. People who haven`t done this can`t possibly fathom what it can be like.

While I haven't met Zenking, I have heard from others that have that he is very different (more normal...lol) in person than on the forums, so you saying so doesn't surprise me. His bizarre posts are just his unique and extreme way of venting. It is sad that many on other forums, especially WoV, including management there don't cut him some slack. Even sadder is the large number of people that are openly rooting against him. Yeah, he rubs some people the wrong way, but geez.

I don't want to embarrass ZK, but one of my biggest regrets is that I didn't get more involved with him when he moved to Vegas. I think it was just about 2 years ago, maybe April or May of 2017. I had just rid myself of one of my "roommates" a poker player who had lived with me for like 7 years, while he tried to find himself and his poker game. He never did. It was always just around the corner. lol One of those people.

So even though I had just gotten rid of him and had an open room, I was leary of taking someone else in, so I didn't offer. I wanted to see how he made out on his own and as it turned out, he struggled not only with card counting, but being on his own for I guess the first time in his life. Being thousands of miles from home, knowing no one is a steep challenge on top of starting a card counting career. In hindsight, at least a stable home (with no bed bugs) might have allowed him to focus more on blackjack.

And just about the time I was reconsidering offering, I ran into my own problems. Open heart surgery in the fall of 2017 and my partner, personal and professional, and best friend for most of my adult life, suddenly and unexpectedly passed away 6 months later. After that I sold my home and downsized into a 2 bedroom condo with my brother, so it is no longer an option. It is what it is. Things happen for a reason. Maybe this is ZenKing's big test, big challeneg. His mountain to climb.