Using a Vice to Squeeze a Pimple

[Sonny]

There’s a good article in this month’s Catwalk newsletter called “Casinos & Card Counters: Using a Vice to Squeeze a Pimple”. It has good examples of how the card counting paranoia is cutting into many casinos' profits. Instead, casinos should be using card counting to increase their business and enhance their bottom line. Here are a few excerps (emphasis added):

“Dr. Thorp secured my overall thoughts perfectly by stating (in concept) the casino industry made card counting a problematic issue rather than a positive marketing opportunity.”

“Large cuts, no mid shoe entries, strict rules, early shuffles, over-reactions, back-offs, barring, mishandlings of situations, lawsuits - who do they hurt? They hurt the casino. My current casino operation is the lower end of mid-sized with a yearly guest head count of about 1.5 million. Over a three-year period, we've had roughly 5 million guests enter our doors. Over that same period, we've had extended observation of 44 players, business issue with 24 players and about half of those were assessed as true professional caliber card counters. 5 million guests minus 12 potential threats equal 4,999,988. That's .00024% of our overall guests.”

“Card counters are not a security liability and should never be approached by security forces. For the few players actually possessing card count skills of the highest level, a respectful business conversation, an agreement of understanding and a hand shake will most often ward off the potential problem of card counting.”

“I have a keen table game staff, a Cracker Jack surveillance team and low limits covering my back. I believe in the expertise of our staff to the point we've been running 2 to 1 blackjack promotions; opening up our game to a slew of potential problems regarding card counters. The point is I'm not running this operation based upon the potential threat of card counting…Our primary goal is to build business.”

http://www.worldgameprotection.com/archive/2008-08/card-counters.html

As I've said before, the industry was given a huge profit opportunity from Mezrich's books, televised BJ tournaments and the 21 movie but they blew it. The paranoia came back and they ended up shooting themselves in the foot. The worst part is, I don't think they even realize it. With a little clever marketing they could probably triple their customer base despite the current economy. Haven't they learned anything from the past 40 years? We'll just have to see how this plays out...

-Sonny-

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Disgusting but interesting analogy in that title. When I was a teen I had a friend who actually used a vise for that purpose. Really hurt himself too.

I'm sure it's more a matter of psychology than business that they obsess with us. Customers making money in a casino breaks a rule, and that creates disorder in their weak minds.

 

[Mimosine]

Wonderful post!

#1: the last 2:1 BJ promo I played was pathetic, one table, no other APs present, table max capped at $50. weird hours, and again, one table. i think that casino has removed table games since, and it was a really nice place in a nice location.... and they were dealing a 6D game at like 60%. and the pit watched every hand. so pathetic.

#2: Soooo many houses hand shuffle, the number of extra rounds they could deal out per hour over the course of a year could have a huge impact on their bottom line. 2 deck chop vs. 1 deck chop per hour is quite a few rounds * number of players = $X.

#3: in my few hundred hours of counting, playing with 1000s of other players , i have seen 1 counter (twice mind you), but i've encountered one maybe 2. an anecdotal data point, but a data point none the less. and we were both playing pretty low stakes.

 

[EasyRhino]

a) Which shop is running 2:1 promos all the time?

b) I thought the number of people tagged was an interesting anecdote. I wonder what the difference was between a "business issue" and a "professional-caliber" in their book. Also, I wonder if it's a fair comparison, it's may not be 5 million individual people who went through the doors, but player-visits... but it's still a tiny percentage.

 

[bjcount]

If the casinos used intelligent marketing, they would look at CC's as "loss leaders", similar to how retail establishments advertise free chips with 2 liter soda. Put a picture of the lucky guy who won some real money playing bj on the wall instead of the 10k slot winner. Tell the general public how good their tables are.

The only time they lose is when a high stakes player is exceptional and their SD was going their way. Besides there not taking a lose, the house is just not winning as much.
Overall on a monthly basis, there is a net gain from the tables to the house.

The house only loses when they chase the players away with bad rules, too high min's and too low max's.

From what I've reads, your right, 40 years later, they still haven't learned from there mistakes.

 

[zengrifter]

#1: the last 2:1 BJ promo I played was pathetic, one table, no other APs present, table max capped at $50. weird hours, and again, one table. i think that casino has removed table games since, and it was a really nice place in a nice location.... and they were dealing a 6D game at like 60%. and the pit watched every hand.

They watched every hand and the only player they weren't concerned
about was the AP cause he was the only one FLAT-BETTING. zg

 

[RingyDingy]

interesting read

A very interesting read.

Id like to throw a "theory" out there for those that really know what they are talking about, as opposed to me making a bit of a wild stab in the dark.

Whats the real motive? How much is the casino security industry worth? how many large income Security guys have put the fear of god into management about card counters, how many senior managers have scared the stakeholder/owners (who really dont know any better) into thinking this is a real issue?

Surely as suggested above, if they didnt turf out every joe plopp who comes in and looks like he has a calculator in his brain, they could seriously make decent money, i mean after all how many people can REALLY, REALLY, REALLY count cards that well, and use it to thier advantage. Vs Joe Plopp who thinks he can count but really cant and loses a stack of cash.

I gotta say i agree with the basis of the article.

cheers

Ringy.

 

[ricopuno]

BJCOUNT wrote:

If the casinos used intelligent marketing, they would look at CC's as "loss leaders", similar to how retail establishments advertise free chips with 2 liter soda. Put a picture of the lucky guy who won some real money playing bj on the wall instead of the 10k slot winner. Tell the general public how good their tables are.

I agree.

 

[N&B]

Intelligent marketing... isn't that mutually exclusive?

 

[Doofus]

Disgusting but interesting analogy in that title. When I was a teen I had a friend who actually used a vise for that purpose. Really hurt himself too.

I'm sure it's more a matter of psychology than business that they obsess with us. Customers making money in a casino breaks a rule, and that creates disorder in their weak minds.

Why use a vice when you can get a better handle on that sucker with a pair of needle-nosed pliers?

 

[SD Padres]

I like the last part of the article:

"Card counting is not criminal. It's not even a significant problem. Let's take our hats off to the true artists of card counting who don't delve into any actions that could be deemed criminal. Your efforts and talents are valued and respected by casinos everywhere."

 

[Doofus]

His casino is out in the middle of nowhere, many hours drive from the nearest airport.

No wonder he doesn't have a problem with counters! Heck, I'm surprised they has as many as 24 as he says in his article, heh!

 

[RingyDingy]

His casino is out in the middle of nowhere, many hours drive from the nearest airport.

No wonder he doesn't have a problem with counters! Heck, I'm surprised they has as many as 24 as he says in his article, heh!

Maybe he can comp us and fly us all in then we may give him something to think about :laugh:

 

[callipygian]

Whats the real motive?

The same as the real motive behind 90% of what goes on at a company - C.Y.A. The hold/drop ratio is calculated for every pit, and underperforming pits are subjected to scrutiny. No pit boss wants to be the guy whose pit got hit by a professional team, and no shift manager wants to be the guy whose shift got hit. So the shift managers lean on the pit bosses, and the pit bosses lean on the dealers. Nobody wants to be the fall guy.