Vegas Conditions

[bj21abc]

This trip to Vegas was the first time I have used CBJN extensively: there seem to be a lot of differences (yes, mostly on the negative side) between CBJN and the situation on the ground. I have not purchased CBJN Jan so this may all be covered there. Still, I assume some will find this useful

I saw a felt (at MGM ?) for BJ (SD ?) with no insurance, BJ pays 1:1 and suited BJ pays 2:1. Welcome, 5:4 no insurance blackjack.

Aria: only one or two DD tables open, and these were at $50 min and above (always someone playing) cannot see any scope for $25 min. One or two $25 min 6D S17 tables. All other tables $50/$100+ min. Lower limit tables are mostly CSM, H17.

Bellagio: during 3 visits there was only one occasion I found a single $50 min DD game. At all other times $100 and above. Did not see a single $25 min 6D S17 table. All low limit tables that I saw were CSM, H17.

Circus Circus: dealers continue to be among the crankiest. Thank you for dealing slowly and colouring up/down during the flashing light promotion. I think that bad dealers and the slow (in both senses of the word) clientele turn this promotion into a washout (unless you bring a whole table of friends).

Cosmopolitan: usually 2 or 3 $25 min DD tables open. An exciting new twist – when playing 2h you are restricted to table min flat bet. That’ll teach all you nasty APs.

Hard Rock: there are only ever either 1 or 2 DD tables. I think I did see a single 6D S17 game – was playing DD so did not really look.

Harrahs: was walking through and happened to see a 6D H17 LS game. The LS sign was a new one attached to the table.

Hooters: the DD game may only be on offer afternoon/evening/weekends. It was on offer Sunday afternoon but I walked in on a couple of nights and mornings midweek to find it was not there.

Las Vegas Hilton: have stopped offering LS on their DD game.

Mandalay Bay: Several $25 min D tables usually available though may go up to $50 in busy periods. A few S17 6D $25 min tables also on offer – again in busy evenings limits will go up.

MGM: S17 only in the “high” limit S17 pit (I assume also in real HL room). Can usually find a $25 min game not at peak times, or can ask to have limits lowered on a $50 table – PB has always agreed. Two or three $25 min S17 6D games also available.

Mirage: Usually two $25 min DD tables and two $25 min S17 6D tables open.

Monte Carlo: A single $25 min 6D S17 table usually open. Cannot recall seeing any DD games (did not check HL).

Planet Hollywood: DD games no longer have DAS.

Red Rock: Did not see any 6D S17 games (may have missed them, was looking at DD)

Terribles: apparently the loss rebate is soon coming to an end

Treasure Island: mostly CSM. Did not see a single 6D S17 game. DD games available only in HL room, $50 min.

(disclosure - posted this on bj21 this morning...)

 

[ChefJJ]

I saw a felt (at MGM ?) for BJ (SD ?) with no insurance, BJ pays 1:1 and suited BJ pays 2:1. Welcome, 5:4 no insurance blackjack.

And it wasn't SuperFun 21? Ugggh.

 

[Tribe]

Wow

I'm just getting into the technical side of Blackjack, but when I was last in Vegas I stayed at The Venetian and they had a $15 min table. I'm now wishing I wrote down the rules they were using.

 

[ArcticInferno]

With all due respect, someone pleases confirm that Cosmopolitan flat bets you the table minimum if you play two hands.
I have never heard of such thing.
It just doesn't make sense.
Ploppies very often enjoy playing two hands.
Playing two hands isn't an AP thing.

 

[itrack]

I did not run into that rule at the cosmopolitain, and I almost always play 2 hands. On the other hand, they DO let you play 2 hands of minimum ($25) if thats what you were trying to say?

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Sucks about the Hilton. I guess the Pen was pretty bad anyway though

 

[bj21abc]

Cosmo flat bet

This is what I encountered at Cosmo. It was very clear - if you want to play two hands, it can only be at table minimum.

From my (limited) experience there, plus reading other posts, they seem to be all over the place in terms of countermeasures. It may have been only for that day, it may have been specifically for me.

With all due respect, someone pleases confirm that Cosmopolitan flat bets you the table minimum if you play two hands.
I have never heard of such thing.
It just doesn't make sense.
Ploppies very often enjoy playing two hands.
Playing two hands isn't an AP thing.

 

[forwhat77]

Nothing from DT?

 

[bj21abc]

Dt

Nope...

played exclusively on the main strip and further away - could not see (CBJN and CW) any better games DT

 

[Southpaw]

About the no-insurance blackjack. This is something that scares me a bit, as insurance is quite important. I am somewhat surprised that it hasn't been thrown out altogether, yet. I mean, how many non-AP's take insurance on times other than they have BJ? From my few hours at the table, I imagine very few. What I am surprised hasn't happened is that "insurance on BJ only" has not become widspread.

SP

 

[bj21abc]

Well, fair point - our gain on insurance is quite large (cannot remember how much it is worth offhand) - if it was a popular ploppy bet it would make sense for the casinos to not even consider removing it.

However - in my limited US experience it seems that ploppies have realised insurance is a bad bet - I saw very few insurance bets. If that is the case we are left with insurance as mainly an AP tool, which is not good...

About the no-insurance blackjack. This is something that scares me a bit, as insurance is quite important. I am somewhat surprised that it hasn't been thrown out altogether, yet. I mean, how many non-AP's take insurance on times other than they have BJ? From my few hours at the table, I imagine very few. What I am surprised hasn't happened is that "insurance on BJ only" has not become widspread.

SP

 

[ArcticInferno]

This is what I encountered at Cosmo. It was very clear - if you want to play two hands, it can only be at table minimum.

From my (limited) experience there, plus reading other posts, they seem to be all over the place in terms of countermeasures. It may have been only for that day, it may have been specifically for me.

I think you were identified as an AP, but not enough of a threat to be jettisoned from the casino.

 

[paddywhack]

This trip to Vegas was the first time I have used CBJN extensively: there seem to be a lot of differences (yes, mostly on the negative side) between CBJN and the situation on the ground. I have not purchased CBJN Jan so this may all be covered there. Still, I assume some will find this useful

As always, table mins and number open will vary greatly by the day and time.

Actually played at Aria on 1/7 late afternoon and there were many $25 DD games.

Have to agree with Bellagio.

Cosmo had a whole pit of $25 DD open on 1/9 early afternoon.

Mirage had several $25 DD open late afternoon 1/7 and again early afternoon 1/9.

YMMV though.

 

[StudiodeKadent]

I don't see why a lack of Insurance is so bad.

It is SLIGHTLY detrimental to basic strategy players since they never take it, but the removal of insurance speeds up the game and thus increases the average number of hands played.

It is detrimental to AP's, since index plays indicate when the bet has a positive EV, and also slows down the game.

To... "silly" players (to be polite), who will end up the majority of the players of this game since it pays 2:1 suited and 1:1 unsuited (i.e. 5:4 average), removal of insurance has a benefit since it stops them from playing a sucker bet (YES, technically speaking the game itself is a bit of a sucker bet because of the payout, but the house edge is WAY below most games). The benefit is of course mitigated by the faster play of the game.

To the casino, the outcome will be mixed. They lose dumb ploppies taking the sucker bet, but they avoid intelligent AP's taking it at a good moment and they SLIGHTLY speed up the game.

Now, since this is being applied to a game only ploppies will actually play in the first place, I doubt that the casino will, on average, benefit from removing insurance from this specific game.

But would I object to a situation where, IN THEORY, the casino removed all insurance bets? No, I wouldn't, as long as all the other game rules remained unchanged.

 

[1357111317]

They will always leave insurance bets in so ploppies can take even money. My guess is that over 75% of ploppies will take even money on blackjacks. I've always seen quite a few ploppies insure good hands like 19 or 20. Overall casinos would be lighting money on fire ( although they do this all the time) by removing the insurance rule.

 

[Southpaw]

They will always leave insurance bets in so ploppies can take even money. My guess is that over 75% of ploppies will take even money on blackjacks. I've always seen quite a few ploppies insure good hands like 19 or 20. Overall casinos would be lighting money on fire ( although they do this all the time) by removing the insurance rule.

What I fear is that it will become popular to only allow insurance when player has BJ.

SP

 

[FLASH1296]

The standard British game only permits Insurance when you have a Blackjack.

Insurance is very valuable to an A.P. because it gives us a POSITIVE e.v. bet when the count is high and our bets are large.

This is the same phenomena as Early/Late Surrender, where the higher the count goes, the more bets you will surrender.

 

[kewljason]

Sorry to hear you were disappointed Bj21abc. A couple observations. Your report is centered on the strip area, when the best games in Vegas, are found off strip. And I am not talking a couple blocks like terribles or palms, but rather the 'locals' houses far off strip. Only one such location is included in your report. As far as CBJN. It is only a guide or reference point. Conditions in Vegas are very fluid and a Paddywhachk suggests they change within a casino not only from hour to hour but table to table. You gotta keep your eyes open and do your own scouting. You gotta realize that the reporters for CBJN do their scouting on the first couple days of the month and those conditions may not be reflective of the entire month. Take this month for example the first few days was a busy holiday weekend and conditions reported by the CBJN reporters probably won't reflect what is happening the rest of the month.

That being said, I find it absurd that you issue a single line conclution based on a brief observation. Especially for some of the bigger houses that have multiple pits and many, many tables. One line seems a bit incomplete as well as inconsistant from my personal experiences.

 

[FLASH1296]

Kudos to kewljason for an excellent post.

Those of us who scout our games KNOW that conditions also vary by shift — depending on the Shift Bosses' disposition.

Also, it is not uncommon for casinos to "tighten up" their games when they are in financial decline.

 

[kewljason]

Kudos to kewljason for an excellent post.

Those of us who scout our games KNOW that conditions also vary by shift — depending on the Shift Bosses' disposition.

Also, it is not uncommon for casinos to "tighten up" their games when they are in financial decline.

True, Flash. It is also not uncommon for them to taylor their games to the crowds. The recently departed CES draws a crowd of 'geeks', many of whom get to vegas once a year or even less. They are not even what I would call occasional gamblers. Top industry folks know that a crowd like this are just s likely to play 6-5, 8 deck games as single deck 3-2. So what do you think they give em? :laugh: Now of course they aren't running around changing the felt on tables, but they damn well make sure all the 6-5 tables that wouldn't ordinarily be open on a weekday are in operation. Likewise with the big money wheel and other carnival games with house edges in excess of 10%. :laugh: