Was the pitboss giving me heat?

[p8ntballsk8r]

I was sitting at 3rd base on a 5min 199max table and counting. The count was pretty high so I dropped a black got 11, double'd and lost. Next hand I threw another black out cuz the count was still very high, got 11, double'd and won.

I saw one of the pitbosses watching me from far aways, well not really watching but I made eyecontact several times.

Later in that same shoe he came and stood to the dealers right (very close to me cuz I was at 3rd base)

He wasn't really talking, and I just stopped my counting all together there and made low bets.

I just can't think of any other reason he would come over next to me.

Also if i get this in the future, what should I do? Thinking possibly whip my phone out and step away from the table (have someone finish my hand for me if it's in progress) then pretend someone called and start "talking" on it and get up and head away.

Also I have a club membership card that awards players for time they put in at the tables and when you get suited blackjack you get entries for weekly drawings of cash, or even Tricked out Trucks. IF I was suspected as a counter, would they have any info on my card indicating that? right now i don't think i'm suspected anymore. But I just don't want to wear out my welcome since i've only been of age for a month... and this past week alone i've taken them for $1450

 

[EasyRhino]

A player's profile in the computer will generally have the following info:

time played
average bet
estimated skill level
theoretical casino earnings ("theos")
estimate actual win/loss

Skill level, and estimate actual wins are what could get you in trouble.

Sounds like you definitely got some heat. But maybe not because of counting, maybe the pit boss is just sweaty around any action. If it's generally a low-roller joint (or table), then betting black chips may automatically get you attention. Few weeks ago I was in a $10 pit where one dude was betting about $500 a hand. the floorman was absolutely transfixed by him, to the point of semi-ignoring other tables (the guy was a pretty bad player, too).

Your best bet with the pit boss is to engage him. If you can't think of anything better, hassle him about comps. Also, one tip in Ian Anderson's book that I love, if you get a hand that is conceivably borderline, then ask him for advice on how to play it. And whether or not you follow it, give him credit for being such a smart man.

If he keeps scoping you out, you may need to start laying some serious cover.

 

[renegadexxxx]

you need to run away before they drag you out and beat you in the surf.... RUN NOW

 

[shadroch]

You shouldn't be looking at the PB,let alone making eyecontact.
However,since you already did-try one of these two tacts. Next time you make eye contact,wink at him,and lip your lips sensously.Hopefully that will back him off.
If not,I'd try Rhinos advice but take it a step farther. If he gives you advice and you win,hi-5 him and try to hand him "his cut". That should keep him away.

 

[EasyRhino]

Next time you make eye contact,wink at him,and lip your lips sensously.

Oh, sorry, I thought that was a given. I usually rub my fingers together and start saying "mmmhmmm" too. It's hard to keep it all in play at once, but you'll get better at it with practice.

 

[p8ntballsk8r]

Also I've been 18 for only a month. Always one of, if not THE youngest player at the tables.

would this give them more, or less of a chance to suspect me?

would you recommend me to stop using my club card?

I know some of the pitbosses, as well as dealers by name and have been back since yesterday. That one was the only 'heat' i've received so I think i'm alright.

also when i throw a black chip down, the count is always high... but my bet before that isn't necessarily ramp'd... say i'll put between 5 and 25 on a hand usually...then toss a black out if the count is +... but then even if I win or get BJ i'll throw down a min bet after that bj
Whenever I put out a black... i say something to the dealer like "C'mon George I know you can do it"

what do you guys think?

 

[supercoolmancool]

Do you look like someone who would reasonably be betting $100 per hand?

 

[p8ntballsk8r]

no, but the only time i throw down a black is if i'm up at least $100 and want to make more and am willing to lose it.

also i had a count at +19 above the initial running count using knockout count, I lost my last 30$ on that hand, but the count jumped up to +23 above the initial running count, 1 away from the pivot so I took a benjamin out of my wallet, got chips, and put it all on the next hand. I knew the casino would think i was just steaming and trying to win it all back on 1 hand. Which I was doing, accept I knew I had an advantage and was willing to lose that 100$.

 

[ScottH]

Do you look like someone who would reasonably be betting $100 per hand?

Yeah, there aren't many 18 year old kids throwing down black chips unless they are wealthy. So you should dress up nice and make it look more like you are wealthy and betting 100 dollars is nothing for you. If you go in wearing casual clothes and a baseball cap, look young, and are betting black, you will definitely be suspect as a card counter to the casinos.

 

[halcyon1234]

However,since you already did-try one of these two tacts. Next time you make eye contact,wink at him,and lip your lips sensously.Hopefully that will back him off.

Take it even a step further. And order a drink with a carrot in it and-- well-- use your imagination. =)

 

[NDN21]

Was

First off, stop playing at Oklahoma casino's. That ante will kill you.

How much do you buy in for? It seems you already have a black chip ready to go since you didn't mention coloring up. If you buy in for $150 and play at $5 level then all of a sudden jump up to $100 then yes, I would say you were receiving heat.

lso when i throw a black chip down, the count is always high... but my bet before that isn't necessarily ramp'd... say i'll put between 5 and 25 on a hand usually...then toss a black out if the count is +... but then even if I win or get BJ i'll throw down a min bet after that bj

1-20 spread?

From that I would say you might be jumping up your bets too fast and also bringing them down too fast. It might be a better idea to ramp you bets up and ramp them down also.

Yes I would say that was heat you bought upon yourself.

 

[EasyRhino]

Wait, now I'm worried that you may be using a crappy bet spread. Are you using a proportional bet ramp, or are you using more of a KO rookie binary style where you just warp from min bet to max bet instantly? Because, while that way will indeed give you some sort of edge over basic strategy, the absolute next thing you want to work on after basic counting, is proportional betting.

18 and black chips? Yeah, that could be an issue. Try wearing a tennis sweater around your neck at all times or something.

Also, how much is a $100 bet compared to your bankroll? Any chance you're overbetting?

 

[p8ntballsk8r]

I'm playing not playing at an Oklahoma Casino... there's no ante. no worries.

Yea 100 is too big for my BR, I only bet it when I'm up 200 or so and want to make it big that session.

I usually buy in for 40$ - 100$ and color up blacks as often as possible. Then i'll throw one down if the count get delicious.

 

[ScottH]

I'm playing not playing at an Oklahoma Casino... there's no ante. no worries.

Yea 100 is too big for my BR, I only bet it when I'm up 200 or so and want to make it big that session.

I usually buy in for 40$ - 100$ and color up blacks as often as possible. Then i'll throw one down if the count get delicious.

As tempting as it is to throw down a big bet in a big count, don't overbet your bankroll! Variance is unforgiving if you do that, don't mess around with it man...

 

[Persnickety1]

I'm playing not playing at an Oklahoma Casino... there's no ante. no worries.

Yea 100 is too big for my BR, I only bet it when I'm up 200 or so and want to make it big that session.

I usually buy in for 40$ - 100$ and color up blacks as often as possible. Then i'll throw one down if the count get delicious.

Interesting betting strategy you have there, Paintballskater.

I hope you don't get bankrupt with it, though.

You may want to read a few books, learn about Kelly betting, about the risk of ruin.

 

[EasyRhino]

Dude, I understand the temptation to really fire it up. I've been trapped in the hell of a crowded $5 or $10 six deck table, only to gaze longingly at a quality double or single deck game with a $50 or $100 minimum. And I began thinking to myself "well hell, I could just grab a few hundred bucks, sit down at the single deck table, and see what happens!". Plus, I'd get to play using black chips, and that would be pretty sweet.

Problem is, within 30 minutes, playing at such a game and trying to spread at all would almost definitely obliterate my bankroll.

You haven't mentioned your bankroll. But here's two rules of thumb for you:

- If your only goal is to have a chance to last through an entire evening (it's completely replenishable, and you're going with guts), then take that bankroll, divide it by about 50 or 75, and you're good to go with a 10x spread.

- If your goal is to have a moderately small chance of not having your bankroll wiped out over any length of time (it's non-replenishable or only slightly replenishable), then take your bankroll, divide by 100, and set that as your MAXIMUM bet.

To relate an anecdote, this weekend a high-roller was slumming it in the general pit. He was playing a double deck game at 2x$500 hands, and later 2x$1000 hands. He had a nice little pile of chips going. 30 minutes later, it was all gone, and I overheard him on the phone telling someone to wire another $20,000 somewhere. If we take the right inference from this he went into the casino with either 20 or 40 units, was only flat betting, and lost it all in about an hour.

Where does a $100 chip fit into your bankroll?

 

[BVUGrad2003]

Tricked out Trucks

Also I have a club membership card that awards players for time they put in at the tables and when you get suited blackjack you get entries for weekly drawings of cash, or even Tricked out Trucks. IF I was suspected as a counter, would they have any info on my card indicating that? right now i don't think i'm suspected anymore. But I just don't want to wear out my welcome since i've only been of age for a month... and this past week alone i've taken them for $1450[/QUOTE]

How many entries do you have so far? I think I'm at 55 - 50 free ones and I think 5 suited blackjacks LoL
I think I need to go out there on Wednesday - see if I can get some more entries!

 

[Sonny]

Well, if they didn’t suspect you before they will now. :sad:

I saw one of the pitbosses watching me from far aways, well not really watching but I made eyecontact several times.

As others have pointed out, this is a big mistake. Try to keep the pit crew in your peripheral vision, but don’t look directly at them unless you need to get their attention (questions, comps, etc.). It is their job to look around and observe the tables. If you are always “averting your gaze” you will look suspicious.

Later in that same shoe he came and stood to the dealers right (very close to me cuz I was at 3rd base)…I just can't think of any other reason he would come over next to me.

There are many reasons for him to come over. Maybe he wants to introduce himself to someone betting black chips to make you feel more welcome. Maybe he wants to make sure that the dealer doesn’t make any mistakes on a large bet. Maybe he wants to observe your betting for comp purposes since you use a players card. Maybe he wanted to check the chip count at the table to see if it needed a refill. Maybe he's checking out the blonde next to you. Maybe he’s really bored. Who knows.

Also if i get this in the future, what should I do? Thinking possibly whip my phone out and step away from the table (have someone finish my hand for me if it's in progress) then pretend someone called and start "talking" on it and get up and head away.

Don’t do anything that drastic! If you run away every time he comes by, you will look very suspicious. If you never want to talk to him you will look very suspicious. Next time just play it cool. Talk to him, make a few jokes and try to get more info from him. Maybe he does think you’re a counter, but you want to know that before you start acting like one! You don’t want to give yourself away before he suspects you. Even if he does suspect you, he won’t do anything right away. He may have another pit boss observe you for a while, or maybe have surveillance watch you. You’ve still got plenty of time to escape inconspicuously.

In short, always play it cool. Don’t act suspicious until you know you’ve been caught. Even then, don’t do anything rash. Just try to escape casually. Don’t do anything to confirm their suspicion.

IF I was suspected as a counter, would they have any info on my card indicating that?

Yes. It will show up as soon as they scan your account. There are ways to get it removed, but it’s probably better to play anonymously if you can, or not at all.

-Sonny-

 

[bj bob]

very interesting...

time played
average bet
estimated skill level
theoretical casino earnings ("theos")
estimate actual win/loss

...and scarey.If a player's skill level is being evaluated by the pit, one would assume that the pit has the knowledge to evaluate, which begs the question "How much do they know about the intricacies of the game and by what criterion are they evaluating the player?"
I've never seen a PB spend more than 5 min focusing on any single player, so I cannot imagine that any effective evaluation could be conducted in such a short period of time without prior survelliance input.
Another interesting question this brings up is exactly what specific flags are utilized in a typical pit evaluation e.g. bet spreads, current winnings, insurance plays etc. Anyone have any specific info?

 

[shadroch]

I was at a table in the Edgewater about two years ago,sitting at first base. To my right,across the aisle was a computer.The PB swiped a players card and walked away,leaving the computer screen up. As it was about 2 feet away from me it was easy to read.
This particular player had bought in several dozen times,and had lost his entire buy-in every time.his average buy-in was $200,his time was about an hour and his skill level was a 0. I noticed who the newcomer was and sure enough,in a few minutes there was a loud aurguement at his table.Seems the other players didn't appreciate his skill as much as he did.