What kind of counting system would you use for this structure.

[RenoRenagade]

Ok so I was curious . If a blackjack tournament has a 2:1 pay on a 6-7-8 and a 2:1 on a 5 card charlie .

Then what kind of counting system would you use for this?

I thought about forgetting about the 6-7-8 and going with this as my counting system .

A-6- +1
7-0
8-T- -1

The good thing would be when the count was high more blackjacks and high cards would come out . And when the count was low it was mean more chance at the 5 card charlie. So kinda like RED7 just 7s as ZERO to keep a even count and it doesnt really help either side.

What you all think ?

 

[BJApprentice21]

Whats the point?

Making the count even and all sounds good, but you said yourself ...it doesn't really help either side. So whats the point?

That said, one of my favorite sayings is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

My 2 cents, but I have no expertise with AP yet so...I too am curious what the pros say.

 

[KenSmith]

Those two rule changes are worth little, even with optimal play. You're better off just ignoring them. If you want to count, just use the normal Hi-Lo.

With your described idea, counting the Ace as a "bad" card will cost you much more than the value of the 5-card charlie rule will gain you.

As I've often mentioned, card counting is of very little value in tournaments. It does help a small amount, but you're usually better off using your attention elsewhere, such as exactly tracking opponent bankrolls.

 

[RenoRenagade]

Those two rule changes are worth little, even with optimal play. You're better off just ignoring them. If you want to count, just use the normal Hi-Lo.

With your described idea, counting the Ace as a "bad" card will cost you much more than the value of the 5-card charlie rule will gain you.

As I've often mentioned, card counting is of very little value in tournaments. It does help a small amount, but you're usually better off using your attention elsewhere, such as exactly tracking opponent bankrolls.

Thank you for the adivce . I am used to elimination blackjack as thats what got me into blackjack to begin with and im going to try and get into more live regular blackjack tourneys and was wondering if I needed a special strategy for this paticular style .

yea I usually would just focus on people stacks and how much was is the correct amount to bet each round and I guess ill just keep it that way. Thank you again for your advice.

 

[Kasi]

Thank you for the adivce . I am used to elimination blackjack as thats what got me into blackjack to begin with and im going to try and get into more live regular blackjack tourneys and was wondering if I needed a special strategy for this paticular style .

yea I usually would just focus on people stacks and how much was is the correct amount to bet each round and I guess ill just keep it that way. Thank you again for your advice.

Well I'd at least learn how basic strategy changes with the 5-card Charlie rule. Is it an automatic winner? Does it still have to win? Must it add to 21?Can't hurt I guess. Same goes for 6-7-8 I guess. All of them or just suited ones? Etc.


You prefer tournament BJ to regular? Just wondering. I think it would be an absolute blast. And very challenging.

 

[RenoRenagade]

You prefer tournament BJ to regular? Just wondering. I think it would be an absolute blast. And very challenging.

6/7/8 offsuit

and the 5 card in a auto winner .
and I have the 5 card charlie chart.

I wouldnt say prefer . But I am the poker player and one hell of a tournament player . Ive had 90% of my poker profit came from tournament wins.

I think its the fact I am playing against players . It comes more natural to me to play a tournament structure. Thats why when I heard about UBT it caught my attention and I started to learn and play blackjack the day after. And had pretty decent success on Ultimate Bet for like 6 months before focussing my attention on regular blackjack.

But I still like regular blackjack. I really want to get top notch in tournament play as well as regular play.

but in the long run just like ive done in poker the last 5 years , I master whatever Im learning whether its a new game or strategy .

And really all that matters is what ever gets the most greenback :grin:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Those two rule changes are worth little, even with optimal play. You're better off just ignoring them. If you want to count, just use the normal Hi-Lo.

With your described idea, counting the Ace as a "bad" card will cost you much more than the value of the 5-card charlie rule will gain you.

As I've often mentioned, card counting is of very little value in tournaments. It does help a small amount, but you're usually better off using your attention elsewhere, such as exactly tracking opponent bankrolls.

I'd think 5-card charlie would drastically increase the value of an ace, especially if it's paying 2:1. Most 5+ card hands include an ace.

 

[jack.jackson]

You could probably use a ace-neutral system and value them accordingly for each ace side-counted. In general, the ace worth about +1 in overall play. Therefore its probably worth about +2 for every X-tra Ace In play for the 5 card charlie rule.

For a ace-reckoned system, Zen is about Ideal since the Ace is valued at 1/2 the value of the face-card. In effect giving you a good overall balance for this rule.

The fact that its tournament play isnt neccesarily relevant.

 

[sagefr0g]

You could probably use a ace-neutral system and value them accordingly for each ace side-counted. In general, the ace worth about +1 in overall play. Therefore its probably worth about +2 for the 5 card charlie rule.

For a ace-reckoned system, Zen is about Ideal since the Ace is valued at 1/2 the value of the face-card. In effect giving you a good overall balance for this rule.

The fact that its tournament play isnt neccesarily relevant.

hmmph you know what i think i might have just learned something here.

some qualitative value = +card or - card divded by number decks left

where qualittive value is in terms of true count ?

 

[RenoRenagade]

I'd think 5-card charlie would drastically increase the value of an ace, especially if it's paying 2:1. Most 5+ card hands include an ace.

I agree but ken smith is one of the best when it comes to tournament play.

If i were going to make a special count it would be something like this.

2-7 - +1
8-T - -1

and aces as just ZERO, they are just too nuetral. But keeping the runnng count of them is more important.


And the count is only good for knowing if its a good idea to hit your 4 card 17.

In tournaments you cant fall to far behind the pack so taking a gamble sometimes puts you far behind if it fails.

And now you have to remember the count / true count / players stack sizes / figure out how much you are going to wager to keep or take the lead/ And remember the number the number of aces.


Thats why I made this post . Im not sure if its worth adjusting your strategy for the 2:1 on the 5 card charlies or not.

My new question is :

If you have 7/8 and the dealer is a 10/A are you going to hit for the shot at the 6 or just surrender like your suppost to ? Cuz on the 8/6 you would hit anyways . But the 7/8 im not sure . If the count is like +2 or better would you just hit? And if its like -2 just surrender ?

 

[KenSmith]

The problem with 5-card charlie is that it just doesn't actually happen very often. While the rule can certainly help make a live blackjack game more profitable to play, in the tournament world you really need a substantial edge for something to "move the needle" and make a measurable difference in your chances.

Strategy plays and most other card counting effects are dwarfed by accurate bet sizing. That is, all of these things added together matter less than just making the right bet when needed, by a huge margin.