whats the max u have won in one casino before being banned?

[Jack_Black]

Ive never been banned at blackjack but I have been banned from throwing the dice in craps on several occasions. This wasnt because of what I won but how much I was causing other people to win.

Sadly I cannt make them sweat my blackjack action, to small a bankroll. I was backed off once many many years ago after 3 days about 8 hours per day without a losing session at the same casino in LV. I guess even a small bankroll can overstay its welcome. I had red chipped about $2500 in profit AND I WAS POSITIVE PROGRESSION BETTING.

Looking back on it Im not sure what they were thinking. Maybe it was because I was varying my decisions perfectly to the count as the indices required. Or maybe there were to many random correlations with my bet. I dont no, it really doesnt make sense but it happened.

A few weeks ago, a ploppy sat down next to me and was pissed because he had just been backed off from a known sweaty casino. he was just a heavy wild bettor, not even a progression bettor. just 2x600, 2x134, 2x356, 2x890. he was in the hole 5k and won back 5500 and was backed off for winning too much. some places just don't want the big action, yet they have the table limits to accommodate it.

 

[flyingwind]

What things do you see in a player's surveillance that make you decide this player is an absolute sucker? This player is no threat.

Does playing under different alias actually help against surveillance? That is, even if playing under a different alias, if the same surveillance person or team recognizes you, you're still made. But does a different alias make it difficult to pull up past surveillance tapes?

What are the shifts for surveillance? Does it help to play on a different shift?

Do all large wins automatically have surveillance tapes reviewed?

 

[exgriffinman]

I didn't ask for hours worth of writing exploits of your experiences with the MIT team, just one that would not be of common knowledge. I will say that in regards to your reply to crapsmaster, that your information is not entirely accurate. Not sure if that is due to Griffin's perception of the facts vs the truth, or possibly its just what you heard. I will say I have no great admiration for Griffin, as they have pigeonholed AP's as cheaters for years. I have a copy of an old Griffin page with certain players on it I have associated with and the info it contains is a joke if not insulting. The fact you are a counter despite Griffin's ignorant approach to the game, is astounding. For all its fame connected with MIT and AP's in general, Griffin was fairly incompetent in doing its job in that concern. If you are indeed who you say you are, then you must admit at least in the well known cases of the MIT teams, it was by absolutely no skill on Griffin's part that high stakes team play was dicovered. Although its helpful to get a take on the Griffin agency's surveillence thoughts, they are usually, thankfully, very uninformed. Its usually not until after the fact that they will understand how it really works. I would rather get evasive tactic advice from a mouse that doesn't get caught, then from a cat who can't catch him. Until of course the mouse's partner turns into a rat.

Well, I will say this...You can't please all the people all the time. You Sir, sound like on of those. If you do not want advise, Then don't read my posts, there are others here who do.

If you read my previous posts you would be answering some of your own questions and statements. I for one am highly informed and well versed in what is discussed here, I was going to be stern in this response, But I have a lot of restraint. Again if you have a question you would like answered, please feel free to ask...

EXGM

 

[Bojack1]

Well, I will say this...You can't please all the people all the time. You Sir, sound like on of those. If you do not want advise, Then don't read my posts, there are others here who do.

If you read my previous posts you would be answering some of your own questions and statements. I for one am highly informed and well versed in what is discussed here, I was going to be stern in this response, But I have a lot of restraint. Again if you have a question you would like answered, please feel free to ask...

EXGM

No thanks. If I agreed with you then we would both be wrong.

 

[Machinist]

This is gettin good.....
Who's the cat and who's the mouse ???

Machinist

 

[exgriffinman]

What things do you see in a player's surveillance that make you decide this player is an absolute sucker? This player is no threat.

Does playing under different alias actually help against surveillance? That is, even if playing under a different alias, if the same surveillance person or team recognizes you, you're still made. But does a different alias make it difficult to pull up past surveillance tapes?

What are the shifts for surveillance? Does it help to play on a different shift?

Do all large wins automatically have surveillance tapes reviewed?

The first thing we would look at is B/S, If they are not following it, and are not playing common deviations then they are a sucker. If you have a player following B/S diligently and not betting to the count then they are skilled players, then you have APs.

Different aliases do help when your hitting several stores in one area and when your going to the same store and have been burnt. A change of appearence helps too. If surveillance or the pit knows who you are then your done for the day, give it some time and try again. Changing Aliases confuses surveillance sometimes, and then again sometimes not.

Different aliases do not make it harder for surveillance to pull up past tapes because they dont do that. They conduct a fresh eval each time they consider you a threat.

Surveillance shifts are normally Day shift 7-3, Swing shift 3-11 and Graveyard 11-7. Play on swing shift between 9-2am, this is the busiest time for surveillance and pit personnel.

And finally reviews are conducted on all large wins, some stores are 25K and above and others are 50k and above.

Keep playing

EXGM

 

[BMDD]

Actually, I have a very good relationship with surveillance personnel all over the country and after Griffin I went on to be Director of surveillance at several stores. As for Bob Griffin and I, well lets just say we had our differences. I didn't agree on his policies concerning induction into the books and we went our seperate ways. Maybe you should read my introduction to Zengrifter and you'll have a better understanding. I am just answering questions here and giving facts to better help counters with their experience..

EXGM

EXGM,

After reading your introduction I was left with the same impression as Machinist, that you likely left on bad terms with the Griffin Agency, hence you coming here to spill the beans to all of us. It seems that is not the case? What exactly are your motivations for coming here to share with us?

 

[flyingwind]

Does playing unrated make surveillance more likely to target that player for a skills check?

Or is it the pit that makes the decision, "this person is playing unrated," thus is more suspicious and needs to be skill checked? ie. Surveillance doesn't care about whether the person is playing rated or unrated.

 

[aslan]

If the casino thinks you have an advantage over them, they WILL take whatever corrective action that they feel is necessary, whether you're winning or losing. Sometimes; the danger of barring actually INCREASES when you're losing big! IMO; it's because when an AP is losing, he will oftentimes take undue chances with his playing strategy. Usually when you're losing you CAN get away with somewhat more, but if you carry it too far;sometimes it DOES backfire on you. Believe me when I tell you - I've made this mistake MYSELF, and more than ONCE!

I was barred when I was $500 stuck in a Vegas casino. I think what happened was that I let down my defenses and played without camo. It just took one look and they had me. Fortunately, that same night I won $500 on one of their VP machines. Was almost too good to believe. I have not been back since, but I know several people on here have mentioned playing there and liking it.

 

[paddywhack]

how much u have won in one casino? and how long u have played there before being banned?

Don't know yet......they're still letting me play :laugh:

 

[Dyepaintball12]

I feel like entering someone hotel's room without their permission when you don't work at that hotel is shockingly against the law.

 

[aslan]

This is gettin good.....
Who's the cat and who's the mouse ???

Machinist

Whut up??? View attachment 7615

 

[Machinist]

Whut up??? View attachment 7615

Aslan, alot of us on this site have spent alot of time forgeing relationships. A lot of these have been through the chat sessions. And also just reading each others post, bantering back and forth.
We know who is who and where we stand as far as experience in this business.
I'm quite confident in Bojacks history. As far as ExGM , well a couple of replies to a few posts isn't enough to convince me of anything. Ergooooooooo,,,,who's the cat and who's the mouse now?
Being an AP is serious business. We have fun on this site, no doubt about it, but at the same time , we need to be cautious. At least I do. We need to be vigilant just like we do on the chat sessions......
But I will keep an open mind and keep reading Exgm's posts and such....
Machinist

 

[aslan]

Aslan, alot of us on this site have spent alot of time forgeing relationships. A lot of these have been through the chat sessions. And also just reading each others post, bantering back and forth.
We know who is who and where we stand as far as experience in this business.
I'm quite confident in Bojacks history. As far as ExGM , well a couple of replies to a few posts isn't enough to convince me of anything. Ergooooooooo,,,,who's the cat and who's the mouse now?
Being an AP is serious business. We have fun on this site, no doubt about it, but at the same time , we need to be cautious. At least I do. We need to be vigilant just like we do on the chat sessions......
But I will keep an open mind and keep reading Exgm's posts and such....
Machinist

I can't take issue with a single word you just said. I don't pass judgment; I just let people reveal themselves over time and eventually what you see is what you get. If I have a strong hunch, I will sometimes get into it a lot heavier than maybe I should. But that should only serve to flush out a poser and validate the genuine article. As they say nowadays- it's all good.

I'm hoping xgrif will give us some keen insights, but I realize there is just as much chance that someone is just having fun with us and is only trying to see how long he can pull the wool over our eyes. Nobody, or practically nobody, is fooled by these things. You don't become an AP if you're that gullible. So I am sure that everyone who has read this thread so far is reserving final judgment until quite some time has passed, or until actual proof presents itself, as in Bojack's line of questioning.

Funny, I have often had the perverse thought that Ken himself commissions people to invade our site, with everything from the latest Voodoo system hot off the presses, to claims of huge wins or unbelievable blackjack exploits, just to keep the site vibrant and interesting to its followers. You wouldn't do that, would you Ken? Now, tell the truth! :laugh:

 

[exgriffinman]

I feel like entering someone hotel's room without their permission when you don't work at that hotel is shockingly against the law.

Yes it is, but remember counter surveillance used the same tactics as surveillance or griffin or other agencies...Get the information you need, No matter how you get it.

 

[RJT]

Well, I will say this...You can't please all the people all the time. You Sir, sound like on of those. If you do not want advise, Then don't read my posts, there are others here who do.

If you read my previous posts you would be answering some of your own questions and statements. I for one am highly informed and well versed in what is discussed here, I was going to be stern in this response, But I have a lot of restraint. Again if you have a question you would like answered, please feel free to ask...

EXGM

So what you're saying is that you were involved in making life difficult for the MIT team at least 8 years ago - i would surmise during the period that both BDTH and 21 cover - yet you can't detail any event or piece of information that hasn't been covered by the media already that other players with knowledge of the people and time not publically available could verify? Even in a PM? That doesn't exactly help with your credibility.

RJT.

 

[BOND]

Cats or Mice or Both?

Max Rubin, Eliot Jacobson, and Bill Zender are cats or mice or both? :joker:

Disclosure: I own several books by Bill Zender and have found them useful for AP situations.

 

[aslan]

Max Rubin, Eliot Jacobson, and Bill Zender are cats or mice or both? :joker:

Disclosure: I own several books by Bill Zender and have found them useful for AP situations.

So? Casinos use books on blackjack (meant for the advantage play community) to train their employees how to recognize card counters. It is always useful to have a copy of the enemy's play book.

 

[BOND]

So? Casinos use books on blackjack (meant for the advantage play community) to train their employees how to recognize card counters. It is always useful to have a copy of the enemy's play book.

Exactly Aslan..its useful for APs to read posts from people like ExGriffinman and books by Bill Zender to gather and apply information..whether they be cats or mice..

 

[exgriffinman]

So what you're saying is that you were involved in making life difficult for the MIT team at least 8 years ago - i would surmise during the period that both BDTH and 21 cover - yet you can't detail any event or piece of information that hasn't been covered by the media already that other players with knowledge of the people and time not publically available could verify? Even in a PM? That doesn't exactly help with your credibility.

RJT.

Again, it is amazing to me that people can study and memorize BS, card counting systems, and the like but cannot comprehend a post. As I have said several times I am more than happy to answer any question you may have. I have not recieved a PM from you or bo-jack or any other critic. But I have from others and their questions were answered.