Where can I find a double down for less strategy?

[Kasi]

i wish i could delete this thread or change the topic name, because i look stupid with my name under "where can i find a double down for less strategy"

#1 Asking a question is never stupid and never worry about it.

#2 You don't look stupid at all, at least to me, believe it or not lol. Just because I may disagree with you about whatever, and express myself in a way you don't like, in no way have I ever thought of you as stupid. There's a big difference between ignorant and stupid.

#3 I'm gald u asked the apparently "stupid" question because, perhaps unexpectedly, it has led to the fact that under some circumstances, it is absolutely the right thing to do! Despite everyone, including myself I think, spouting the conventional wisdom that "if it's a double, then never double for less".

So please continue to express your understanding of things, and if I disagree about something, I'll tell you. And continue to ask whatever questions you want to pursue your understanding of the game. That's pretty much how I learned what little it is that I think I know.

And feel free to come back at me as often as you like with whatever you think of what I may have said or whatever it is that makes you think I misunderstood what you are saying.

 

[Kasi]

in that situation, doubling for 1 cent would also be better than standing.. which makes me wonder, can you double for $1 on like a $2000 bet, i would assume so, which proves that doubling for less is never a good idea if its on your own hand, otherwise the casino wouldnt allow it (most likely)..

Having said what I said in the above post lol....

Yes doubling for one cent would be better than standing. And also the absolute optimal play if they let you double for a penny. Buying that extra card for one cent is well worth the price.

Yes, as far as I know, most often casinos would allow you double for $1 on a $2000 bet.

But, no, it actually proves that doubling for less on your own hand is sometimes a good idea. Just because the casino may apparently think that doubling for less is never a good idea doesn't make it so.

Remember we are dealing with negative EV's here, not the usual positive EV's of the doubles we all know and love.

As to why the casino allows it, I can only speculate. My guess is they may not be quite as smart as they think they are. Wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Kasi]

use at your own risk indeed.. your EV will go down, and your variance will go way up..

I'll just say "no" on this one and leave it at that.

But, if you want to explain why you think your EV will go down, I'm all ears.

 

[miplet]

6 decks s17 Double on Split Aces
Here is the Excel file I used to do everything. Just change the original and double for less amounts to whaterver you want. If you happen to know how often you get these hands, you could figure out how much it lowers the house edge. Hummmm you get AA once every 95* hands. The dealer will get a bj once every 22* of the hands. Then the probiblity of getting a 2 on one of your Aces is 1 in 13*.... Just kidding I have no clue and won't waste my whole day figuring it out.

*Me making up numbers in an attemt at hummor.

 

[Kasi]

6 decks s17 Double on Split AcesHere is the Excel file I used to do everything. .

Thanks miplet. Much appreciated.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

#1 Asking a question is never stupid and never worry about it.

#2 You don't look stupid at all, at least to me, believe it or not lol. Just because I may disagree with you about whatever, and express myself in a way you don't like, in no way have I ever thought of you as stupid. There's a big difference between ignorant and stupid.

#3 I'm gald u asked the apparently "stupid" question because, perhaps unexpectedly, it has led to the fact that under some circumstances, it is absolutely the right thing to do! Despite everyone, including myself I think, spouting the conventional wisdom that "if it's a double, then never double for less".

So please continue to express your understanding of things, and if I disagree about something, I'll tell you. And continue to ask whatever questions you want to pursue your understanding of the game. That's pretty much how I learned what little it is that I think I know.

And feel free to come back at me as often as you like with whatever you think of what I may have said or whatever it is that makes you think I misunderstood what you are saying.

Having said what I said in the above post lol....

Yes doubling for one cent would be better than standing. And also the absolute optimal play if they let you double for a penny. Buying that extra card for one cent is well worth the price.

Yes, as far as I know, most often casinos would allow you double for $1 on a $2000 bet.

But, no, it actually proves that doubling for less on your own hand is sometimes a good idea. Just because the casino may apparently think that doubling for less is never a good idea doesn't make it so.

Remember we are dealing with negative EV's here, not the usual positive EV's of the doubles we all know and love.

As to why the casino allows it, I can only speculate. My guess is they may not be quite as smart as they think they are. Wouldn't be the first time.

um, why would you put more money out the table in a negative ev situation? remember, if you have like a 49% chance to win a hand, that is NOT negative ev, because you must factor in ties.. there is no such thing as a double down that doesnt have a better chance of winning COMPARED TO losing (ignoring ties), and by that i mean basic strategy.. just curious, what double down move do you think is -ev? im talking about doubling on your own hand here, because if you have read the scavenger bj pdf, you would know that it gets more complex when it comes to others hands

 

[miplet]

um, why would you put more money out the table in a negative ev situation? ...

Splitting 8's vs Ace is -ev, just not as bad as standing or hitting.
Some of this thread has been about what to do if you can double down after splitting Aces, but you are not aloud to hit. In some case it is better to double down (for as little as posible) even if it is -ev, because staying is worse.

 

[Kasi]

why would you put more money out the table in a negative ev situation?

Like miplet said in the last post, sometimes it's better to lose less. Kind of like we lose less hitting a 16 vs 10 than standing on it. But both situations suck.

And I was talking specifically about this game where one is apparently allowed to double, and receive only one more card, after spliiting aces.

Not that I blame you in any way that that wasn't very clear.

But, in that game, with those rules, as miplet showed, there's a lot of hands that one is even better off making a full double, let alone buying one, and only one, "hit" card for perhaps as little as a penny.

Absolutely nothing to do with scavenging.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Splitting 8's vs Ace is -ev, just not as bad as standing or hitting.
Some of this thread has been about what to do if you can double down after splitting Aces, but you are not aloud to hit. In some case it is better to double down (for as little as posible) even if it is -ev, because staying is worse.

this is a very isolated rare case, and we are talking about doubles.. there is no such thing as "minimizing your losses" by doubling, except for that rare case.. and we are not including scavenging, not sure why kasi thot i was, because that is a whole different story, with many variables and rare cases

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

there's a lot of hands that one is even better off making a full double, let alone buying one, and only one, "hit" card for perhaps as little as a penny.

Absolutely nothing to do with scavenging.

name one (let alone lots) other hand besides that rare 'double but not hit ace' rule.. name one other situation where a full double would be -ev.. abviously there are some hands where doubling for less will be -ev, but if you double for full on all those hands, it would be +