Why the Casino business is so far off...

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
A few reasons why I think the Casino business is so far off.
1. Poor treatment of Casino employees, this poor treatment of employees effects employee attitudes toward customers.
2. Nevada two tier minimum wage system which says that you can pay less money to an employee after they have been offered a quilfied health program.
This means that a new employee might start at high wager than somebody that has been in the business for awhile. It creates jealousy between dealers and anomisty at the casino that they are paying them less than other dealers.
3. The economy is in a downturn.

My conculsion is if they casino invested more in there staff than the staff I would be kinder to the guests the guests would respond by playing longer and the Casino would make more money even after they account for pay increases.
 
I think the general decline of service and variety in Las Vegas makes it no longer interesting for any person with the slightest bit of sophistication. Different casino, same crap, and getting worse with all the big mergers. Last time I went I felt like I was in the food court of a ghetto mall.

So unless you're a gambler who gets his thrills from betting on a lousy game, the new Las Vegas gets old real quick. And if you are such a gambler, there's an Indian casino closer, with parking, and without the lines and ripoffs. It seems like the city is doing it's best to chase away every possible market.
 

eandre

Well-Known Member
Agree. Economy and way too many other choices. But the Vegas junket/offers are at the best level in over 10 years. Even the big boys on the strip are offering airfare/ suites in exchange for a shot at your money.
Hopefully, all the alternate choices wake up and begin offering similar perks. Looks like it's going to be a players market for the next couple of years...I smell opportunity.
 

Doofus

Well-Known Member
Automatic Monkey said:
Last time I went I felt like I was in the food court of a ghetto mall.
I wonder if there is a market for a casino that enforces a "dress code." When I was at the Bellagio last time, I was in a coat and tie, playing blackjack next to a guy who had to have been a gangbanger from East LA, and dressed up like he was going to a drive-by right after his casino session.
 

InPlay

Banned
Doofus said:
I wonder if there is a market for a casino that enforces a "dress code." When I was at the Bellagio last time, I was in a coat and tie, playing blackjack next to a guy who had to have been a gangbanger from East LA, and dressed up like he was going to a drive-by right after his casino session.
Does not matter how you are dressed it's all about the green. If you got's the jack your welcome to play. Show me the money baby.
 

Doofus

Well-Known Member
InPlay said:
Does not matter how you are dressed it's all about the green. If you got's the jack your welcome to play. Show me the money baby.
Yes, that seems to be the dominant attitude. But if other wives are like Mrs. Doofus, it probably doesn't help with business, at least not from middle class types like us.
 

jimpenn

Well-Known Member
Armani & Brunomagli good cover...Good Cover

If I'm on the road and plan on playing a certain casino only one night I will dress to the 9's and act stupid. If you lucky enough to find a good game attack at will and kill the bastards. Forget about cover and play 20+ spread until they through you out. Just don't go back the next night.
 

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
The investment in personal!

Most people go gambling to have a good time and a dealer with a flat personailty doesn't help people to stay. A lot of the casinos think there product is the chance to win money. That is only half of there product the other half is the personailty and the way the dealers treat their customers. When the casinos cut their employee wages or only pay them the minimum wage and say that they are replacable at a moments notice they issolate their dealers make them feel bad. This translates to customers when they are the table the customers who are at the table play fewer hands and leave the table sooner.
 
No matter what the positive house advantage on a game is, the casino will eventually get all of your money. It's just a matter of how long it takes.

Theory: now that Vegas is oriented towards forms of entertainment other than gaming, players have less time to spend at the tables. They also have something to do after they lose their gaming money. So the house edge on all games has been increasing, to achieve the same hold in a shorter time, and the customer doesn't notice because he has other non-gaming plans for the rest of the trip. Make sense?
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
Yes, but it has nothing to do with the downturn

Cardcounter said:
Most people go gambling to have a good time and a dealer with a flat personailty doesn't help people to stay. A lot of the casinos think there product is the chance to win money. That is only half of there product the other half is the personailty and the way the dealers treat their customers. When the casinos cut their employee wages or only pay them the minimum wage and say that they are replacable at a moments notice they issolate their dealers make them feel bad. This translates to customers when they are the table the customers who are at the table play fewer hands and leave the table sooner.
Casinos treat their players terribly. Casinos in turn treat their employees just as poorly or worse, but this was how these casinos treated everyone during the gaming boom also. Sure good treatment from dealers will keep some players playing longer but first and most importantly you must get them in the door and that is the current problem of casinos.

Add to this that for years in Vegas the aim of the execs has been away from the games and towards the room rates, shows, restaurants, conventions etc. So the hardcore gambler might have found the travel, room and food rate and other things making Vegas less attractive especially when some tribe built a casino within a hour of his house. The games may not be as good at this Indian Casino but for a pure gambler, the cut in other expenses may make it worth it.

For Northern Nevada (where you are located) the problem existed before the downturn. Reno/Tahoe is just not enough of a vacation or business destination to overcome the beating they are taking from Indian places in California, especially when it is the drive in traffic from California that they depend upon.

Add another thing. Going for your own tokes as compared to pooling. Not all California casinos go for their own but most do. This has resulted in some of the biggest toke houses in California being dominated by dealers with real personality, many of whom came from Nevada or other gambling areas but were tired of sharing their tokes with what you call lumps in your business. They take some personal interest in their regulars and since most CA casinos can be looked at as somewhat locals casinos, they might be neighbors. They either would like to see players win or put on a very good act because they know their toke box belongs to them. And you know what! They are treated probably worse by their bosses than you are in Nevada because currently they are not working really in the U.S. but on tribal land with legal complaints only resolved in tribal courts.

So, if your casino treats you like ****. Quit, go into a different business or if you think you got the personality go to a keep your own joint, but there is a better chance of casinos treating their players better (comps, better games or other incentives to come) than treating their employees like human beings.

Of course, most dealers are not qualified to make more or as much money in another field and have set themselves up in a lifestyle where they can not afford a cut in income, so they put up with everything and just shut up and deal.

Finally, when business is crap, what you are mostly left with is your core customers. In this case addicted gamblers. The vacation and convention person whose spending in all areas of the hotels in Vegas, who made the latest boom, are now having their numbers reduced seriously. In Northern Nevada they were never there but the core is being effected by California casinos. What I see for your area is that it will continue to take serious financial hits and if the economy turns around it will get the smallest and latest boost.

My advice: Move on with your life

ihate17
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
I disagree with your premise that casinos treat their players badly.I can only speak from my own experiances but with a bit of reading and a dose of chutzbah,I've been treated quite well by almost every casino I've played at.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
Shad, I'd say the main way that casinos treat players bad is financially, with game rules, room rates, restaurant prices, etc. That, and the checkin line at MGM Grand. Note that the Cortez is already known to be in its own little time warp.

And you know, I've seen lots of griping about HET treating their employees like circus chimps, but at the same time, the average Harrah's dealer seems more likely to have some sparkling personality than the average non HET dealer.
 

Doofus

Well-Known Member
shadroch said:
I disagree with your premise that casinos treat their players badly.I can only speak from my own experiances but with a bit of reading and a dose of chutzbah,I've been treated quite well by almost every casino I've played at.
I have to agree. I've no complaints about courtesy and treatment, comps have been on occasion a little thin, but since I'm often not playing on my own players card that's to be expected..
 

jimpenn

Well-Known Member
Forget Player's Card in WVA

I sent over $125,00 across the table the last two weeks and received less than $10 comp's. I don't even use it anymore. I was talking to a PC I know well today and he told me about the pen. First, I let the dealer know he was screwing the table by cutting damn near 3D's from 8D shoe and he didn't even know why I was concerned. The PC told me that they are instructed to cut deep at times by Shift Mgr. I told him that's bullshit and I'll start making the trip for three comp'd days at Niagara. (R&B) I don't know of one player who has ever received a "FREE" room at Mountaineer. Now I'm just bold as hell spreading 50-1 at a $10 table if I get a monster count. Today, I simply backcounted for two hours the $25 min tables without giving a **** what they thought. Walked away with my largest win of year.

Fu&k them...they can send me packing anytime they want, and I know it's coming soon.

The only way you can get a good cut you have to tip the dealer prior to starting and let him know it's a "Dealer Dependent Cut" game. Sometimes it works and sometimes you wasted $5/10 bucks. That's why I find it hard to tell someone the conditions at Mountaineer at any given time. You have to make your own way.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
So, Mountaineer sounds like an amazingly crowded place where they have a surplus of degenerate gamblers, and really no need to compete with anyone anywhere?
 

InPlay

Banned
EasyRhino said:
So, Mountaineer sounds like an amazingly crowded place where they have a surplus of degenerate gamblers, and really no need to compete with anyone anywhere?

Well it's got the right name "Mountaineer". all the red necks aka hillbillys don't have a clue and are degenerate gamblers.
 

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
The only way you can get a good cut you have to tip the dealer prior to starting and let him know it's a "Dealer Dependent Cut" game. Sometimes it works and sometimes you wasted $5/10 bucks. That's why I find it hard to tell someone the conditions at Mountaineer at any given time. You have to make your own way.[/QUOTE]

Tell the dealer if you cut off only one deck I will give you $5 it might work especially if the dealer goes for his own tips. In a 6-8 deck shoe that would be as deep as most dealers would be allowed to go. Most dealers don't know what you mean by dealer dependent cut, they might think some how the dealer can change the luck of the table by cutting and think that is has nothing to do with pen. There are lot of players who are religious about the cut if somebody cut and they get a good result they want that player to cut again. If somebody cut and the dealer killed them they want somebody else to cut.
 

FrankieT

Well-Known Member
Doofus said:
I wonder if there is a market for a casino that enforces a "dress code." When I was at the Bellagio last time, I was in a coat and tie, playing blackjack next to a guy who had to have been a gangbanger from East LA, and dressed up like he was going to a drive-by right after his casino session.
That's gotta be like the best disguise for counting. I always seem to see the people who are dressed like gang bangers playing the worst and I bet the casinos notice it too.
.
Wear some saggy jeans, $200 Nikes, a sports jersey that goes down to your knees (or a jogging suit and tinted goggles ala Ali G), and a bandana (or sideways/backwards cap), that's gotta be the best AP player camoflage aside from being a 50+ year old minority woman. Everytime I see some guy like this it seems like they are deviating the farthest from BS and/or yelling at me for ruining the "flow" of the cards. I've never seen someone wearing the hip-hop setup who appeared in any way, shape, or form of being an advantage player.
 
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ihate17

Well-Known Member
This is a tough one

FrankieT said:
That's gotta be like the best disguise for counting. I always seem to see the people who are dressed like gang bangers playing the worst and I bet the casinos notice it too.
.
Wear some saggy jeans, $200 Nikes, a sports jersey that goes down to your knees (or a jogging suit and tinted goggles ala Ali G), and a bandana (or sideways/backwards cap), that's gotta be the best AP player camoflage aside from being a 50+ year old minority woman. Everytime I see some guy like this it seems like they are deviating the farthest from BS and/or yelling at me for ruining the "flow" of the cards. I've never seen someone wearing the hip-hop setup who appeared in any way, shape, or form of being an advantage player.
I do a pretty good job of blending into the crowd, young, old, rich, poor etc.
Even have some tricks that fit me in with gangbangers somewhat, but as a 60something white male I just think I can not pull off the getto dress code to the point where it would not give me extra attention.
 
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