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Ken, your site has helped me bloom into a top advantage player and it’s also where I send anyone looking to learn. Thanks so much for offering this wonderful site and strategy trainer, and for free at that!
Hi. I got into learning the KO counting and tried it out in the Casino Vérité Blackjack program and got really good at it and i now feel ready to try it out online. The problem is, it says to increase the bet at -6 BUT in the online casino i play at (unibet.dk) they change the shoe midway, so it often doesn’t even come down to -6, it’s stays around -10 to -16 most of the time. Is there a good way to know with the KO when to bet higher even if the TC isn’t down to -6??
You also mentioned that this is an 8 deck game. An 8-deck game that deals only 4 decks will rarely get positive. That’s what the KO count is telling you. There is not a good time to bet other than when the count reaches the target count. Card counting online is rarely worth the effort. Most games shuffle every hand anyway, so it’s not possible. The few games where they do not shuffle every hand are very poor penetration, or exceedingly slow in the case of live dealer games.
To really get a chance to play profitable blackjack via counting, you will need to find a land-based game.
Yeah that was kind of what i was “afraid” for. Is there a way to beat the online casino like counting in a land-based casino, or is the only way to try and beat it, by lower the dealers chance to win by using a Basic chart? I just feel like, using the chart as i did before i learned how to count cards, it wasn’t very profitable. I lost a 100, won a 100 and so on, but never a bigger win?
Ten years ago, online casinos were a fantastic opportunity, because of the generous bonus offers and promotions. They have been exploited so frequently that this opportunity is pretty much gone, due to much more restrictive wagering requirements. Since I am in the US (and not usually in New Jersey), I don’t have recent experience with any alternatives for beating casinos online. My guess is that you are unlikely to find much of an edge.
Your comment about trying to beat the game by using basic strategy is a little misguided, although I realize you may not mean it quite literally. If you play a negative expectation game long enough, any good luck that you happen to experience will not be enough to keep you ahead of the game. It’s just a matter of time. In games like this, if you are entertained by playing, then it may be reasonable for you to play. (And basic strategy will reduce your expected cost to a small amount.) But don’t expect to create a profit.
Hi! I’m guessing the increased benefit for card counters is due to the fact that surrendering when we’ve got a big bet on the table is going to save us proportionately more money (high count, larger bet). Are there any other variants that we need to be aware of? Thanks again for the site and help Ben
Sam vaughn was my first cousin, over the years I had lost contact with him. I only knew that he had moved to Phoenix. I have not have contact in years. Thank you.
I found different values for the case of infinite number of decks and dealer stand’s on all 17, too. Please note, that all columns should yield 100 % in sum. But this is not true for the last two colums (tens and aces) of the diagram! I’ve got identical values for the columns 2 to 9 but different ones for 10 and ace.
The simple answer is that if you hit 15vA in the S17 game, you will lose less than half your bet on average (it’s around -0.48 or -0.49). Why does the advice differ between H17 and S17 games? (You should hit 15vA in S17, but surrender 15vA in H17.) The dealers final total will average a bit higher in H17, making your chances worse when hitting. But basically, basic strategy is often tough to explain with a simple reason. It is a combination of many variables. Just trust the math. All possible outcomes are weighted in deciding the optimal strategy. For customized charts, be sure to use our Strategy Engine.
I work at the El Cortez and can confirm that as of today we are still a 3:2 payout (and I don’t think it’s going to change any time soon). The mentality at the LV strip seems to be that you aren’t here for winning, you are here to spend.
Ken, your site has helped me bloom into a top advantage player and it’s also where I send anyone looking to learn. Thanks so much for offering this wonderful site and strategy trainer, and for free at that!
Sincerely,
100+ aliases
Thanks for the kind feedback. I love hearing from players who have learned to extract money from casinos. Continued good cards, -Ken-
Hi. I got into learning the KO counting and tried it out in the Casino Vérité Blackjack program and got really good at it and i now feel ready to try it out online. The problem is, it says to increase the bet at -6 BUT in the online casino i play at (unibet.dk) they change the shoe midway, so it often doesn’t even come down to -6, it’s stays around -10 to -16 most of the time. Is there a good way to know with the KO when to bet higher even if the TC isn’t down to -6??
You also mentioned that this is an 8 deck game. An 8-deck game that deals only 4 decks will rarely get positive. That’s what the KO count is telling you.
There is not a good time to bet other than when the count reaches the target count. Card counting online is rarely worth the effort. Most games shuffle every hand anyway, so it’s not possible. The few games where they do not shuffle every hand are very poor penetration, or exceedingly slow in the case of live dealer games.
To really get a chance to play profitable blackjack via counting, you will need to find a land-based game.
Thanks for the answer 🙂
Yeah that was kind of what i was “afraid” for. Is there a way to beat the online casino like counting in a land-based casino, or is the only way to try and beat it, by lower the dealers chance to win by using a Basic chart? I just feel like, using the chart as i did before i learned how to count cards, it wasn’t very profitable. I lost a 100, won a 100 and so on, but never a bigger win?
Ten years ago, online casinos were a fantastic opportunity, because of the generous bonus offers and promotions. They have been exploited so frequently that this opportunity is pretty much gone, due to much more restrictive wagering requirements. Since I am in the US (and not usually in New Jersey), I don’t have recent experience with any alternatives for beating casinos online. My guess is that you are unlikely to find much of an edge.
Your comment about trying to beat the game by using basic strategy is a little misguided, although I realize you may not mean it quite literally. If you play a negative expectation game long enough, any good luck that you happen to experience will not be enough to keep you ahead of the game. It’s just a matter of time. In games like this, if you are entertained by playing, then it may be reasonable for you to play. (And basic strategy will reduce your expected cost to a small amount.) But don’t expect to create a profit.
Hi!
I’m guessing the increased benefit for card counters is due to the fact that surrendering when we’ve got a big bet on the table is going to save us proportionately more money (high count, larger bet). Are there any other variants that we need to be aware of?
Thanks again for the site and help
Ben
In addition to the basic strategy surrenders, you may want to use the “Fab 4” surrender index numbers.
Here’s a link that shows them for the Hi-Lo count:
https://www.blackjackinfo.com/knowledge-base/blackjack-card-counting/fab-4/#kb-post-35914
To be clear, you should surrender when the TC is at or above the provided index number.
First cousin
Thanks for dropping by Dick. Sammy was a unique and warm soul. He is missed by many.
Sam vaughn was my first cousin, over the years I had lost contact with him. I only knew that he had moved to Phoenix. I have not have contact in years.
Thank you.
Are the numbers “running count” or “true count”,,,am a little bit connfused?
Index numbers for the Hi-Lo count always use the true count.
I found different values for the case of infinite number of decks and dealer stand’s on all 17, too.
Please note, that all columns should yield 100 % in sum. But this is not true for the last two colums (tens and aces) of the diagram! I’ve got identical values for the columns 2 to 9 but different ones for 10 and ace.
Can u explain why its not a good strategy to surrender hard 15 vs Dealers A? (With S17 casino rule)
The simple answer is that if you hit 15vA in the S17 game, you will lose less than half your bet on average (it’s around -0.48 or -0.49). Why does the advice differ between H17 and S17 games? (You should hit 15vA in S17, but surrender 15vA in H17.) The dealers final total will average a bit higher in H17, making your chances worse when hitting. But basically, basic strategy is often tough to explain with a simple reason. It is a combination of many variables. Just trust the math. All possible outcomes are weighted in deciding the optimal strategy. For customized charts, be sure to use our Strategy Engine.
A push sucks if I double my 11 v dealer 6 and he sucks out a 21 on me.
Thanks for confirming. Long live downtown!
I work at the El Cortez and can confirm that as of today we are still a 3:2 payout (and I don’t think it’s going to change any time soon). The mentality at the LV strip seems to be that you aren’t here for winning, you are here to spend.
I’m trying to decide whether you can just use 90% of your EV for the calculation instead. I’ll have to think about that a bit.