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In live casinos on line, one has the advantage of back counting (8 decks games). the question is which is prefered, to back count and wait till the true count is high (say +3 or higher) and only then start betting, but then, you only play low number of hands per shoe. Or to play acroos the entire show, where you can play many more hands per shoe ?
Spliting 8s against a ten? Isnt that a sucker play? I mean your going up against the highest card a dealer can have isnt that just asking for punishment?
This hand is ugly no matter what you do, but it is definitely better to split here. If you hit the pair of 8s against a dealer ten, you’ll lose about $5.35 on a $10 bet on average. If you stand, you’ll average a loss of $5.37. If you split and put another $10 bet up, the average combined loss on the two (or more!) hands is $4.75. Basic strategy is a game of pennies. You play every hand in the way that wins the most on average, or in this case, loses the least. Split ’em.
In live casinos on line, one has the advantage of back counting (8 decks games). the question is which is prefered, to back count and wait till the true count is high (say +3 or higher) and only then start betting, but then, you only play small number of hands per shoe. Or to play across the entire shoe, where you can play many more hands per shoe ?
Sorry, I thought I responded to this earlier. I must have forgotten to hit Reply. There is no advantage in playing more hands per shoe if those hands have a negative expectation. Your results will always be best if you can limit yourself to betting only in positive situations. And to be profitable at all you must bet very little or not at all in even or negative counts. Entering these games only at TC +3 or better will yield a nice percentage profit, but you will watch far more hands than you play. I would probably start at +2 instead, but it depends on your bankroll.
I have 3 questions regarding splits. The 8,8 v 10; 4,4 v 5 (6); and A, A vAce
I recently had a shoe that went to TC5+ and had max bets over 2 boxes. The first box produced a split and double. Which in turn produced another double. The second box produced a split and double also. The count had now come down to TC3+. The split was 8.8 and dealer was 10. Would u believe it, the split produced 2 more spits each being 8,8. I split one more time and decided I had too much money on the table and just stuck the final 8,8. My sessional roll just about contained all these splits and doubles but my nerves ran out as I decided it was too much. Should the correct play be to keep splitting 8,8s v 10 so long as sessional bank could contain it? This is UK rules.
First, 88vT in UK rules is not a split, because of the risk that a dealer blackjack could wipe out all your multiple bets.
But I’ll answer your real question assuming that the circumstance at hand is an appropriate split… Mathematically yes, you should continue to split as long as that is the correct strategy. But it is not unreasonable to decide at some point that the risk is too high. If you are concerned about the session bankroll, it is not terribly expensive to decide to limit your exposure on a single hand. In my opinion, you should always be willing to put at least four bets at risk on a hand. If you’re not comfortable with that, your bankroll is not big enough. But beyond four bets, use your discretion.
On a flat shoe and European game, DAS, 4,4 v 5 (6) is a split. I hate this move and I split. From my probability charts a 4 v 6 less chance of winning than 8 v 6. So why is the BS move to split?
It’s often difficult to show a specific reason for the basic strategy of a particular hand. In this case, you’ll just win very slightly more by splitting (and making any possible resplits or double downs), than if you just hit the 44v6 hand. You really can’t just use probability of win charts unless you take into account all the downstream possibilities, and also the percentage chance of a push on any of the multiple hands. It’s complicated to figure manually, which is why combinatorial analysis software is used to determine the optimal strategy.
In the European and UK game, where dealer has no peek at his hole card, if the player has A,A v A and splits, then obtaining 2 x 21’s, the dealer gets a natural and wins all the splits. It is for this reason that a very experienced pro said A,A is not a split. However, another source says to split anyway since the split A’s are strong enough to warrant it. The vast majority of books on BJ are not written with enough consideration for European/UK rules. What do you suggest please?
Against the UK no-hole-card game, do not put more money on the tables against a dealer ten or Ace, with one exception. Still split Aces against a dealer ten. My Strategy Engine with the “No Peek” setting will show you the correct strategy.
Hi Ken, I play the UK casinos and I too have no problem Wongin in but I have ‘respected’ the environment more now and will play through a moderately negatively shoe. However last month I played in continental Europe and after 15 minutes I was told I either play or go away. Later in the week, a player synchronised his bets with mine and also played deviations. We got chatting after and it didn’t go unnoticed that he attracted a lot of heat. He was informed his play was no longer welcome and we think it was because he was moving from table to table.
In response to all those that believe in 3rd base player effects…
Aside from it being complete rubbish, let us also not forget that focusing on Billy Nobrains’ poor decision-making and how it affected your hand also actually distracts you from your strategy, count and bet sizing.
I’m a relatively successful market trader and investor and have seen many similarities in psychology….maintaining a cool head under stress, not blaming bad luck on anything (except perhaps your own analysis), focusing on longterm results, understanding past errors, and knowing when to stop trading after a bad run.
However, two of the most important skills I’ve learnt is to always look ahead after taking a loss, and to ignore market noise.
Other than the count, disregard all other players hands. Learn to forget your losses quickly so that you’re able to immediately focus on the next round of betting.
In live casinos on line, one has the advantage of back counting (8 decks games).
the question is which is prefered, to back count and wait till the true count is high (say +3 or higher) and only then start betting, but then, you only play low number of hands per shoe. Or to play acroos the entire show, where you can play many more hands per shoe ?
Omg thank u ?..!!
Spliting 8s against a ten? Isnt that a sucker play? I mean your going up against the highest card a dealer can have isnt that just asking for punishment?
This hand is ugly no matter what you do, but it is definitely better to split here.
If you hit the pair of 8s against a dealer ten, you’ll lose about $5.35 on a $10 bet on average.
If you stand, you’ll average a loss of $5.37.
If you split and put another $10 bet up, the average combined loss on the two (or more!) hands is $4.75.
Basic strategy is a game of pennies. You play every hand in the way that wins the most on average, or in this case, loses the least.
Split ’em.
In live casinos on line, one has the advantage of back counting (8 decks games).
the question is which is prefered, to back count and wait till the true count is high (say +3 or higher) and only then start betting, but then, you only play small number of hands per shoe. Or to play across the entire shoe, where you can play many more hands per shoe ?
Sorry, I thought I responded to this earlier. I must have forgotten to hit Reply.
There is no advantage in playing more hands per shoe if those hands have a negative expectation.
Your results will always be best if you can limit yourself to betting only in positive situations.
And to be profitable at all you must bet very little or not at all in even or negative counts.
Entering these games only at TC +3 or better will yield a nice percentage profit, but you will watch far more hands than you play. I would probably start at +2 instead, but it depends on your bankroll.
Hi Ken
Gr8 site and delivery. Thank you.
I have 3 questions regarding splits. The 8,8 v 10; 4,4 v 5 (6); and A, A vAce
I recently had a shoe that went to TC5+ and had max bets over 2 boxes. The first box produced a split and double. Which in turn produced another double. The second box produced a split and double also. The count had now come down to TC3+. The split was 8.8 and dealer was 10. Would u believe it, the split produced 2 more spits each being 8,8. I split one more time and decided I had too much money on the table and just stuck the final 8,8. My sessional roll just about contained all these splits and doubles but my nerves ran out as I decided it was too much. Should the correct play be to keep splitting 8,8s v 10 so long as sessional bank could contain it? This is UK rules.
First, 88vT in UK rules is not a split, because of the risk that a dealer blackjack could wipe out all your multiple bets.
But I’ll answer your real question assuming that the circumstance at hand is an appropriate split…
Mathematically yes, you should continue to split as long as that is the correct strategy. But it is not unreasonable to decide at some point that the risk is too high. If you are concerned about the session bankroll, it is not terribly expensive to decide to limit your exposure on a single hand. In my opinion, you should always be willing to put at least four bets at risk on a hand. If you’re not comfortable with that, your bankroll is not big enough. But beyond four bets, use your discretion.
On a flat shoe and European game, DAS, 4,4 v 5 (6) is a split. I hate this move and I split. From my probability charts a 4 v 6 less chance of winning than 8 v 6. So why is the BS move to split?
It’s often difficult to show a specific reason for the basic strategy of a particular hand. In this case, you’ll just win very slightly more by splitting (and making any possible resplits or double downs), than if you just hit the 44v6 hand. You really can’t just use probability of win charts unless you take into account all the downstream possibilities, and also the percentage chance of a push on any of the multiple hands. It’s complicated to figure manually, which is why combinatorial analysis software is used to determine the optimal strategy.
In the European and UK game, where dealer has no peek at his hole card, if the player has A,A v A and splits, then obtaining 2 x 21’s, the dealer gets a natural and wins all the splits. It is for this reason that a very experienced pro said A,A is not a split. However, another source says to split anyway since the split A’s are strong enough to warrant it.
The vast majority of books on BJ are not written with enough consideration for European/UK rules.
What do you suggest please?
Against the UK no-hole-card game, do not put more money on the tables against a dealer ten or Ace, with one exception. Still split Aces against a dealer ten. My Strategy Engine with the “No Peek” setting will show you the correct strategy.
i dont understand, is the BS always used or just when playing alone against the house, and if so, why???
when im studying BS i see suicidal hands
Hi, Ken,
My question is: Whay you double down at 9 against a 4 or 5 and you don’t at A,8, since I have the same a total of 9 ?
Hi Ken, I play the UK casinos and I too have no problem Wongin in but I have ‘respected’ the environment more now and will play through a moderately negatively shoe. However last month I played in continental Europe and after 15 minutes I was told I either play or go away. Later in the week, a player synchronised his bets with mine and also played deviations. We got chatting after and it didn’t go unnoticed that he attracted a lot of heat. He was informed his play was no longer welcome and we think it was because he was moving from table to table.
Aces are auto split. And it really matter’s where u sit when another players decides to bank. Good luck
In response to all those that believe in 3rd base player effects…
Aside from it being complete rubbish, let us also not forget that focusing on Billy Nobrains’ poor decision-making and how it affected your hand also actually distracts you from your strategy, count and bet sizing.
I’m a relatively successful market trader and investor and have seen many similarities in psychology….maintaining a cool head under stress, not blaming bad luck on anything (except perhaps your own analysis), focusing on longterm results, understanding past errors, and knowing when to stop trading after a bad run.
However, two of the most important skills I’ve learnt is to always look ahead after taking a loss, and to ignore market noise.
Other than the count, disregard all other players hands. Learn to forget your losses quickly so that you’re able to immediately focus on the next round of betting.
Your information is invaluable, and I am deeply grateful. And I might bug you for years to come 🙂
ohhh, thanks a lot
To understand the charts, start at our Strategy Engine, and read the instructions for the strategy cards.