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OK, 200 shoes makes a lot more sense. You’ve still been very lucky, but you are well within the range of possible outcomes. As a guess, I would put your expected win somewhere around $1300. You would need a simulation to get specific numbers.
I played DD hit S17 or S17 any casinos but i won a little and down a lot of money.I dont know whats going on i played basic strategy counting cards Hi Low counts.But the problem the positive counts i cant get my big bets and my cards is always bad, Iam thinking to stay away from the casino.Do i need not to stay my hard 14 or hard 15 against the dealer 20 if the count is +4TC which remaning 2decks?or less?And how much do i need money to play $50 minimum bet in 1 session?thanks
The advantage in counting is quite small, so losing streaks are inevitable even if you are playing correctly. It is especially frustrating to have a losing streak at the very beginning, because you have nothing to compare it to. I would expect that most counters that start off with poor results give up the game. Players who begin with a winning streak instead will eventually have the same losing streaks, but they will have also experienced the other side of the coin which makes it far more tolerable.
You ask about standing with hard 14 or 15 vs a dealer 20. I assume you mean a dealer ten up. (Stop assuming that the dealer has a face card underneath. It is not true, and not helpful.) You confusingly mention a true count of +4 but then ask about remaining decks of 2 or less. You should stand with 15vT at a true count of +4 or more no matter how many decks are left. The conversion to a true count already takes into account the number of decks left. For example, with 2 decks left, that means you need a running count of +8 or more to stand with 15vT. As for the other hand, you should not be standing with 14vT. Just hit it.
Time away from the game could provide a much needed chance to improve your understanding before you go back, particularly if you are playing a $50 minimum bet game.
How much money is needed for a session at a $50 table? Well, that depends on how long you play and what your larger bets are. For an hour or so, you should have no less than $2000 or $3000 available. Preferably more, because you will often run out at that level. You need to be spreading to a top bet of at least $400 to make this game viable. I would prefer a session bankroll of $5000 for that game.
It seems 2decks remaining on the shoe with +5 or above is the best time to bet 1to8 in $10 table games.And how much money do i need to bring with me in $50 minimum DD in 1 session?thanks
You’re still not understanding the true count. It doesn’t matter how many decks are left. Just bet based on the true count. You should have a bet ramp that reaches your top bet at a true count of +5 or so.
Since you can use a smaller spread, a $50 double deck game needs less bankroll. You can play a typical session spreading $50 to $300 with $1500 or so.
This is how long it has been since I played BlackJack in a casino. Am just about 50, and in the 1990’s, if you bet 100.00 and won that hand, you had 200.00 in your pocket! Have times changed. Went to Vegas a year ago but did not pay any attention to BlackJack or the payouts. Used to go there several times a year. Good Luck everyone
I’ve recently started learning card counting with hi-low system. I find this matter amazing and I’m confident I can get to master it and I dream of nothing but success while reading and practicing day and night, every second I have free. I just found your website and it seems very interesting. I would like to interact with you, for I have a world of questions and inquiries. To start off with a question: how come your course or classes of such a value are published for free?
The Blackjack School was originally published online by “The GameMaster” who used it to publicize his website by offering it to other sites for their use. His site has been offline for a while now, but we all still get the benefits. Like so much excellent free content on the net, it’s generally supported by advertisers.
Of how much would the minimum you advise my bankroll should be and at what point would I start winning? Also, at what point would I convert my running count to true count on a 6 deck shoe? After the first deck played, after half of the first deck, 2nd deck. What difference does it make?
Your minimum bankroll will likely be affected by the quality of the games near you. If you have good two-deck games nearby, you can probably make money with a bankroll of $3000 or so. I recommend that your biggest bets be no more than 1% of your bankroll, so a $3000 bankroll would mean limiting your top bet to just $30. At that rate, your hourly expected win will definitely be less than minimum wage. But it’s a start. If you are forced to play 6-deck games instead, you really need $5000 at a minimum. You can always take a shot with a smaller bank, with the understanding that you may go broke and have to wait to raise another starting stake.
You should convert your running count to a true count each time you need to decide how much to bet. (And if you are using strategy variations, you may also want to do so in the middle of a hand.) Having a good idea of where the true count stands gets much easier with experience, so it doesn’t feel like you are constantly struggling to convert from the running count.
Interesting article. However, I might qualify what you wrote with “depending on where you play.” I live in a small market with limited playing opportunities. The small ‘casino’ where offers only Texas Hold ‘Em and a second room with Spanish 21, PaiGow, some other card game (I can’t recall at the moment) and a *single* table of BJ. The only comp they offer is a $5 or $10 match play–but they seem to give it out to anyone who plays and not just the ‘club members.’ We even pay for our drinks! There’s a single pit boss, who oversees all the card playing, but rarely watches people play. The table limit on the BJ is $100, so the only time the PB is alerted is when someone bets the table max, which is rare. The min. bet is $3. It’s definitely a low-roller place.
On the plus side, it’s a very congenial, low-key place, and a very pleasant way to spend an hour or so. The dealers know the regulars by name, and there seems to be good camaraderie all around.
Now, I like to think of myself as an excellent basic strategy player: slow to lose, and occasionally going home with more than I came in with. However, I’ve begun to learn Hi-Lo, have read lots of stuff on here and other sites, read a few books (Thorpe, Wong, Schlesinger), and am practicing every day–dealing 5 hands and counting. The BJ at the aforementioned casino is 6D, NS, H17, DAS, BJ pays 3:2, so that’s what I’m practicing at home. (Yeah, I know, not the best game, but it’s all that’s available.) I still have lots of practicing to do, but when I’m ready to put everything into play, I have a place to play, where a small spread, say 1-8 (or 10) will never even raise an eyebrow. And with such a low min bet, I can afford to practice without losing a ton of money.
Anyway, sorry for the long-winded reply. I enjoy your site!
I think you are misunderstanding how to calculate the true count. Just divide the running count by the number of decks that you haven’t seen. It does not matter whether the dealer ever uses those cards or not. They are still unseen cards that should be used in the calculation. For example, if you are one half deck in to the 2-deck shoe, there are still 1.5 decks left. A running count of +3 would translate to a true count of +2. (3/1.5 = 2).
Most of the time i loss when the count is plus and im winning the count is negative count.In my experience to play blackjack for many years im broke still and this game unbeatable especially the dealer they so lucky.
I know that kind of thing can get on people’s nerves, however at the end of the day the cards are always shuffled rather than setup. It just means there is no knowing the order of cards beforehand. The dealers bust card or the card that makes his 21 could come out different every time. Idiot players help just as much as they hurt you.
The thing that gets me is the unrealisticly long losing streaks that seem to come up too often. That is playing perfect basic basic strategy with all the right splits, and doubles yet losing 90 percent of the time no matter what the hands are originally dealt. I mentally question the shuffles at times but it has to accepted unless there’s a good reason to speak on the house cheating.
Leaving at minor negative counts in double deck quickly becomes impractical because it happens so frequently and there are typically only a few double deck tables that you can switch to. When playing double deck I generally play through the negative counts, except for taking bathroom breaks and phone call breaks during the worst counts.
Ken ,
They are not 200 hands but 200 shoes.
My balance is too loud ?
This above standard deviation ?
OK, 200 shoes makes a lot more sense.
You’ve still been very lucky, but you are well within the range of possible outcomes.
As a guess, I would put your expected win somewhere around $1300.
You would need a simulation to get specific numbers.
I played DD hit S17 or S17 any casinos but i won a little and down a lot of money.I dont know whats going on i played basic strategy counting cards Hi Low counts.But the problem the positive counts i cant get my big bets and my cards is always bad,
Iam thinking to stay away from the casino.Do i need not to stay my hard 14 or hard 15 against the dealer 20 if the count is +4TC
which remaning 2decks?or less?And how much do i need money to play $50 minimum bet in 1 session?thanks
The advantage in counting is quite small, so losing streaks are inevitable even if you are playing correctly. It is especially frustrating to have a losing streak at the very beginning, because you have nothing to compare it to. I would expect that most counters that start off with poor results give up the game. Players who begin with a winning streak instead will eventually have the same losing streaks, but they will have also experienced the other side of the coin which makes it far more tolerable.
You ask about standing with hard 14 or 15 vs a dealer 20. I assume you mean a dealer ten up. (Stop assuming that the dealer has a face card underneath. It is not true, and not helpful.) You confusingly mention a true count of +4 but then ask about remaining decks of 2 or less. You should stand with 15vT at a true count of +4 or more no matter how many decks are left. The conversion to a true count already takes into account the number of decks left. For example, with 2 decks left, that means you need a running count of +8 or more to stand with 15vT. As for the other hand, you should not be standing with 14vT. Just hit it.
Time away from the game could provide a much needed chance to improve your understanding before you go back, particularly if you are playing a $50 minimum bet game.
How much money is needed for a session at a $50 table? Well, that depends on how long you play and what your larger bets are. For an hour or so, you should have no less than $2000 or $3000 available. Preferably more, because you will often run out at that level. You need to be spreading to a top bet of at least $400 to make this game viable. I would prefer a session bankroll of $5000 for that game.
It seems 2decks remaining on the shoe with +5 or above is the best time to bet 1to8 in $10 table games.And how much money do i need to bring with me in $50 minimum DD in 1 session?thanks
You’re still not understanding the true count. It doesn’t matter how many decks are left. Just bet based on the true count. You should have a bet ramp that reaches your top bet at a true count of +5 or so.
Since you can use a smaller spread, a $50 double deck game needs less bankroll. You can play a typical session spreading $50 to $300 with $1500 or so.
This is how long it has been since I played BlackJack in a casino. Am just about 50, and in the 1990’s, if you bet 100.00 and won that hand, you had 200.00
in your pocket! Have times changed. Went to Vegas a year ago but did not pay any attention to BlackJack or the payouts. Used to go there several times a year. Good Luck everyone
Hello Ken,
I’ve recently started learning card counting with hi-low system. I find this matter amazing and I’m confident I can get to master it and I dream of nothing but success while reading and practicing day and night, every second I have free.
I just found your website and it seems very interesting. I would like to interact with you, for I have a world of questions and inquiries.
To start off with a question:
how come your course or classes of such a value are published for free?
Thank you,
Joe
The Blackjack School was originally published online by “The GameMaster” who used it to publicize his website by offering it to other sites for their use. His site has been offline for a while now, but we all still get the benefits. Like so much excellent free content on the net, it’s generally supported by advertisers.
Hello Ken,
Of how much would the minimum you advise my bankroll should be and at what point would I start winning? Also, at what point would I convert my running count to true count on a 6 deck shoe? After the first deck played, after half of the first deck, 2nd deck. What difference does it make?
Your minimum bankroll will likely be affected by the quality of the games near you. If you have good two-deck games nearby, you can probably make money with a bankroll of $3000 or so. I recommend that your biggest bets be no more than 1% of your bankroll, so a $3000 bankroll would mean limiting your top bet to just $30. At that rate, your hourly expected win will definitely be less than minimum wage. But it’s a start. If you are forced to play 6-deck games instead, you really need $5000 at a minimum. You can always take a shot with a smaller bank, with the understanding that you may go broke and have to wait to raise another starting stake.
You should convert your running count to a true count each time you need to decide how much to bet. (And if you are using strategy variations, you may also want to do so in the middle of a hand.) Having a good idea of where the true count stands gets much easier with experience, so it doesn’t feel like you are constantly struggling to convert from the running count.
Ken,
Interesting article. However, I might qualify what you wrote with “depending on where you play.” I live in a small market with limited playing opportunities. The small ‘casino’ where offers only Texas Hold ‘Em and a second room with Spanish 21, PaiGow, some other card game (I can’t recall at the moment) and a *single* table of BJ. The only comp they offer is a $5 or $10 match play–but they seem to give it out to anyone who plays and not just the ‘club members.’ We even pay for our drinks! There’s a single pit boss, who oversees all the card playing, but rarely watches people play. The table limit on the BJ is $100, so the only time the PB is alerted is when someone bets the table max, which is rare. The min. bet is $3. It’s definitely a low-roller place.
On the plus side, it’s a very congenial, low-key place, and a very pleasant way to spend an hour or so. The dealers know the regulars by name, and there seems to be good camaraderie all around.
Now, I like to think of myself as an excellent basic strategy player: slow to lose, and occasionally going home with more than I came in with. However, I’ve begun to learn Hi-Lo, have read lots of stuff on here and other sites, read a few books (Thorpe, Wong, Schlesinger), and am practicing every day–dealing 5 hands and counting. The BJ at the aforementioned casino is 6D, NS, H17, DAS, BJ pays 3:2, so that’s what I’m practicing at home. (Yeah, I know, not the best game, but it’s all that’s available.) I still have lots of practicing to do, but when I’m ready to put everything into play, I have a place to play, where a small spread, say 1-8 (or 10) will never even raise an eyebrow. And with such a low min bet, I can afford to practice without losing a ton of money.
Anyway, sorry for the long-winded reply. I enjoy your site!
It sounds like you have a firm handle on the situation at your local casino. That’s a perfect place to hone your skills. Good luck!
How can you estimate the T/C in DD that the dealer the never dealt hte whole 2 decks of the shoe?
I think you are misunderstanding how to calculate the true count. Just divide the running count by the number of decks that you haven’t seen. It does not matter whether the dealer ever uses those cards or not. They are still unseen cards that should be used in the calculation. For example, if you are one half deck in to the 2-deck shoe, there are still 1.5 decks left. A running count of +3 would translate to a true count of +2. (3/1.5 = 2).
Most of the time i loss when the count is plus and im winning the count is negative count.In my experience to play blackjack for many years im broke still and this game unbeatable especially the dealer they so lucky.
But he is not playing millions of hands..it’s ONE hand that Clueless has hurt you and that ONE hand can cost you
Disagree on the surrender part if it was such a scam every casino would offer it!
I know that kind of thing can get on people’s nerves, however at the end of the day the cards are always shuffled rather than setup. It just means there is no knowing the order of cards beforehand. The dealers bust card or the card that makes his 21 could come out different every time. Idiot players help just as much as they hurt you.
The thing that gets me is the unrealisticly long losing streaks that seem to come up too often. That is playing perfect basic basic strategy with all the right splits, and doubles yet losing 90 percent of the time no matter what the hands are originally dealt. I mentally question the shuffles at times but it has to accepted unless there’s a good reason to speak on the house cheating.
Leaving at minor negative counts in double deck quickly becomes impractical because it happens so frequently and there are typically only a few double deck tables that you can switch to. When playing double deck I generally play through the negative counts, except for taking bathroom breaks and phone call breaks during the worst counts.