Are you a professional blackjack player?

[Craps Master]

Seems we have had these "what is a pro" discussions before. For the purposes of this poll, it would have been helpful if the original poster had expressed his definition of professional, since different people seem to have different definitions.

It doesn't really matter. So few people are voting that they are professional blackjack players that it's easy to rule some of them out by their posts here on a case by case basis. For instance, it should be obvious to everyone that JJ is not a professional according to any reasonable definition of the term.

 

[muppet]

A pro player is one who regularly plays at reasonably high stakes for a significant portion of their overall income, and has done so for at least a few years. There is no set formula of specific hours of play or percentage of overall income, as these factors will vary from year to year.

fair enough

 

[Sonny]

Too narrow a poll (not the first time I've heard that!)

For the sake of completeness, shouldn’t we include an option for bustouts?

-Sonny-

 

[Craps Master]

For the sake of completeness, shouldn’t we include an option for bustouts?

-Sonny-

I'm not really here to make light of the bustouts; I'm mostly just trying to find out how many people here have made a career of blackjack (or who are attempting to do so).

 

[sagefr0g]

bj pro not

what about part time stuff and stuff other than bj?
doesn't apply i guess.
what ever i just try and have fun and supplement my retirement using advantage stuff.

 

[kewljason]

I'm not really here to make light of the bustouts; I'm mostly just trying to find out how many people here have made a career of blackjack (or who are attempting to do so).

There aren't many. I think we learned that from some recent chat room discussions. And the few that do exist are mostly involved in team play. Most players find that solo play requires to much investment of time and too small a return for their liking.

 

[Gramazeka]

no joking

Jack Jackson, You said … "take 10,000 and turn into 1million" W. T. F. ?

You better put down that crack pipe or learn to use 'smileys' to indicate sarcasm or joking.

This is real. I win 20 day 3.000- 200.000evro.

 

[suicyco maniac]

90%+ of my income comes from casinos although not exclusively from blackjack and I have been doing that for about a decade. I consider myself a pro. I know many people who are much better and more knowledgeable then me but do not play for a living.

 

[jack.jackson]

think ive been in the sun too long?

Jack Jackson, You said … "take 10,000 and turn into 1million" W. T. F. ?

You better put down that crack pipe or learn to use 'smileys' to indicate sarcasm or joking.

Flash, according to CVCX a plyer using ho2 or ao2 w/ace SC has a 16.5% of RoR using a 25:250(1:10) spread, with a 10K BR, playing against a 2D,H17,DAS and 68% pen with 3plyrs, with aWR of $100 an hour.

10hours=$1000
10days=$10,000
30days=$30,000

So now you have a BR of $40,000 and therefore can afford to parlay your stakes to 50-500(1:10) spread. Thats 80maxbets with only a 2.1% RoR and a WR of $200 an hour.

10hours=$2000
10days=$20,000
30days=$60,000

So now were entering our 3rd month and we now have a BR of $100,000 and were just now getting ready to raise our stake to 100-1000(1:10). And so on.

So as you can see, by playing in a sterile atmosphere, of theoretica play at your kitchen, its quite possible to attain 1,000,000 within a years time:grin::joker:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I'm curious to know just how many professional blackjack players there are here.

Not a worthwhile question, as even most weekend players play something other than blackjack. I play very little blackjack these days, but happen to meet LVBear's definition of a pro even though I don't call myself that. I'm a part-timer.

 

[Craps Master]

Not a worthwhile question, as even most weekend players play something other than blackjack. I play very little blackjack these days, but happen to meet LVBear's definition of a pro even though I don't call myself that. I'm a part-timer.

Huh? So what if weekend players play something other than blackjack? They're not professionals, so it doesn't matter. It also doesn't matter if a professional blackjack player plays something other than blackjack. Also, I agree that you're not a professional blackjack player and that you're a part-timer.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Hate to Be the Half Guy

Flash, according to CVCX a plyer using ho2 or ao2 w/ace SC has a 16.5% of RoR using a 25:250(1:10) spread, with a 10K BR, playing against a 2D,H17,DAS and 68% pen with 3plyrs, with aWR of $100 an hour.

10hours=$1000
10days=$10,000
30days=$30,000

So now you have a BR of $40,000 and therefore can afford to parlay your stakes to 50-500(1:10) spread. Thats 80maxbets with only a 2.1% RoR and a WR of $200 an hour.

10hours=$2000
10days=$20,000
30days=$60,000

So now were entering our 3rd month and we now have a BR of $100,000 and were just now getting ready to raise our stake to 100-1000(1:10). And so on.

So as you can see, by playing in a sterile atmosphere, of theoretica play at your kitchen, its quite possible to attain 1,000,000 within a years time:grin::joker:

With your numbers:
First, the player must reach the competent level to play close to what a sim says. There will be many pseudo counters who understand or can perform just good enough for the casinos to take all their money. There are so many pseudo counters that casinos should love counters. :joker::whip:
Now, the few who are actually competent have these and probably other negative possibilities.:joker::whip:
16.5% of the players above will go broke
More will stop because they are losing
More will stop because they are not winning enough
More will stop because they can make more doing something else
More will stop because they don't like the work
More will stop do to expenses eating profits
More will stop due to social pressure of family, friends etc.
Bleak:joker::whip:

 

[kewljason]

For what it's worth, my definition of a pro doesn't have to do with what percentage of your income is derived from your play. If a Doctor has a parttime business on the side, does that no longer make him a doctor? No, of course not. And someone who plays parttime and has a job and/or other business interest can still be a pro in my book. For me, being a pro means 3 things. 1.) a complete understanding and expertise of the game you are playing. 2.) approaching your play like a business with accurate and detailed record keeping and seperate funds which are not used for any other purpose. 3.) acheiving a certain level of monetary success, whether you use that money to live off entirely, suppliment your income or even save to fund your retirement down the road.

So in my opinion, someone like AutoMonkey who has a far superior understanding of the game (blackjack as well as many other games) and mathematics involved, is most definately a pro. Many other partime, weekend warriors types fit my definition as well.

At the same time, I don't consider myself a pro, although I have supported myself entirely off of blackjack winnings for 7 years now. I have a very limited, elementary understanding of advantage play, and continue to learn and expand my knowledge as I go. I consider myself an aspiring pro. So for me, while making a substantial portion of your income is part of the equation, there is a lot more to being a pro than that.

 

[blackjack avenger]

What is a Pro?

I would think to define pro would be easy?

At some point most of your income should be derived from your primary endeavor. However, this does not have to be one's current situation.

A pro athlete initially earns most of their income from their sport. However, with some of the top performers their sponsorship's can out earn their sports income yet they are still considered professional athletes.:joker::whip:

Any professional could have investment income that is greater then their professional income.

So
Perhaps a professional CC can earn other income, wether it's from other games or investments. However, I think at some point the CC has to be over 50% of income. Also, the CC income should be over 50% of the seed money for other investments. If none of the above apply then it's probably more a hobby.

Also,
Perhaps a professional AP can earn other income, wether it's from CC or investments. However, I think at some point the AP has to be over 50% of income. Also, the AP income should be over 50% of the seed money for other investments. If none of the above apply then it's probably more a hobby.

The endeavor that takes the most of your time, even if you make less then other outlets could also possibly be considered your profession.

I don't see how stakes played would make any difference as long as the above criteria were met.

See how easy that was:joker::whip:

 

[blackjack avenger]

Hmmmmm

approaching your play like a business with accurate and detailed record keeping and seperate funds which are not used for any other purpose.

Accurate and detailed record keeping; though nice, is not necessary to be a professional. One can get by with not so accurate and detalied.:joker::whip: As an example one does not have to keep track of their small denomination bills and change in order to employ any Kelly fraction betting scheme.

Some would say real Kelly theory does not involve separate funds which are not used for any other purpose. As an easy example expenses for the pro who derives most if not all their income from play are crucially important and often not understood by pseudo counters.:joker::whip:

Also, you are a pro because from CC is where you derive most of your income. Most professions require continuous learning. However, a little modesty on this site is perhaps a good thing, states "blackjack avenger":joker::whip:

 

[Craps Master]

I would think to define pro would be easy?

It is. All of this talk about what does or does not constitute a professional blackjack player is nonsense. It seems if we were talking about professional attorneys or professional basketball players or professional auto mechanics, there wouldn't be all this second-guessing. Not that it matters. I'm just interested in the votes. If people think they are professional blackjack players, they'll vote yes. If not, no. Simple.

 

[kewljason]

It is. All of this talk about what does or does not constitute a professional blackjack player is nonsense. It seems if we were talking about professional attorneys or professional basketball players or professional auto mechanics, there wouldn't be all this second-guessing. Not that it matters. I'm just interested in the votes. If people think they are professional blackjack players, they'll vote yes. If not, no. Simple.

Are you contemplating making blackjack your profession? Or trying to figure out the 'qualifications' of those that spout off here regularly? :laugh:

 

[MAZ]

At the same time, I don't consider myself a pro

Oh really? Well then somebody with your same exact name voted you as a pro.

There is so much nonsense with these answers. Either you play as a pro or not. It doesn't matter if you approach the game with professionalism, that is not a pro. Alot of "APs" think they can play as pros based on their part time weekend warrior status. Well thats just bullsh*t. There is more to playing bj as a profession than what a part time hobbyist does. And making money outside of bj or gaming for a pro does not effect pro status either, even if it becomes greater than gaming income. Outside investments and income for pros are usually fueled by their gaming income so it is actually a direct result of playing professionally. If you are playing bj at home at no stakes you are not a pro anymore than someone who has read all the texts on how to be an engineer, and sits at home with all the knowledge and no degree earning nothing is not an engineer. Stop with nonsense answers, you damn well know if you play as a pro or not. If you play baseball on the weekends with your buddies in a beer league, are you a pro athlete?

 

[aslan]

by pro, do you mean play blackjack for a living? if so i would disagree with your definition :whip:

I'm willing to say, if the expression, "Don't give up your day job," applies to you, then you are not a pro. I believe there are pros who make better money doing something else in life, and so they don't pursue a professional career at blackjack. So maybe we should make a distinction between professional proficiency and the connotation of making one's living as a professional. I would opt for the latter in any poll asking if you are a pro.

 

[kewljason]

Oh really? Well then somebody with your same exact name voted you as a pro.

Yes, Mr Maz, I did vote that way due to the limited options available.