Are you a professional blackjack player?
- Thread starter Craps Master
- Start date
Sonny
Well-Known Member
Just be careful that you're not giving up anyone else's games at the same time. If other people are playing those games (specifically the HC games) and they find out that you're giving them away, it will have a huge impact on the number of games you find in the future. I know that you're a smart guy so I'm not necessarily saying this to you as much as to everyone who reads this thread. The only thing more painful than watching someone give away your games is watching a newbie playing them and advertising it to the casino. I am perpetually guilty of the latter, but never the former. When I am guilty of neither I will vote in this poll.21forme said:
-Sonny-
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
can you expound on that a bit?Sonny said:Just be careful that you're not giving up anyone else's games at the same time. If other people are playing those games (specifically the HC games) and they find out that you're giving them away, it will have a huge impact on the number of games you find in the future. I know that you're a smart guy so I'm not necessarily saying this to you as much as to everyone who reads this thread. The only thing more painful than watching someone give away your games is watching a newbie playing them and advertising it to the casino. I am perpetually guilty of the latter, but never the former. When I am guilty of neither I will vote in this poll.
-Sonny-
i'm must be overlooking something as to why it's so painful to see someone give a game away.
is it that the more it is played and perhaps played recklessly that the game could be killed?
or that key positions might end up being taken more often turning it into a waiting game, sort of thing?
aslan
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing the former. But I can see where the latter could come into play as well. Take a number! :laugh: Which might prompt the proverbial "urge to kill." :devil::whip:sagefr0g said:can you expound on that a bit?
i'm must be overlooking something as to why it's so painful to see someone give a game away.
is it that the more it is played and perhaps played recklessly that the game could be killed?
or that key positions might end up being taken more often turning it into a waiting game, sort of thing?
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
right, right, yeah.aslan said:
part of the reason i wont be pm'ing you on that 'stuff' alluded to in chat ole buddy.:sad:
info given is not to be transferred with out permission sort of thing, a trust if you will.
simply put mum, mum is the word.
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=190474&postcount=1
competition can be a bitch.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Yes, I know the kind of advertising you're talking about. It makes me want to just bang my head against the table.Sonny said:Just be careful that you're not giving up anyone else's games at the same time. If other people are playing those games (specifically the HC games) and they find out that you're giving them away, it will have a huge impact on the number of games you find in the future. I know that you're a smart guy so I'm not necessarily saying this to you as much as to everyone who reads this thread. The only thing more painful than watching someone give away your games is watching a newbie playing them and advertising it to the casino. I am perpetually guilty of the latter, but never the former. When I am guilty of neither I will vote in this poll.
-Sonny-
And if it were a crime, I'd be serving consecutive life sentences!
beating vegas
Well-Known Member
what do you consider a pro ????Craps Master said:
FLASH1296
Well-Known Member
A conversation that I had nearly 20 years ago, with a coterie of A.P.’s in Las Vegas, produced a
consensus of “More than 200 but less than 300 serious full-time BJ Professionals in the US A”
It is clear that many A.P.’s have moved to playing POKER as the ‘Poker Boom‘ blossomed, (and there are a couple of million fish to fleece), simultaneous with the ubiquitous transmogrification of blackjack; so logic dictatyes that there are less Pro Players now then there were.
consensus of “More than 200 but less than 300 serious full-time BJ Professionals in the US A”
It is clear that many A.P.’s have moved to playing POKER as the ‘Poker Boom‘ blossomed, (and there are a couple of million fish to fleece), simultaneous with the ubiquitous transmogrification of blackjack; so logic dictatyes that there are less Pro Players now then there were.
aslan
Well-Known Member
Just a few thoughts.FLASH1296 said:
Consider to the contrary that twenty years ago, the internet had hardly begun to transform, and in some respects, transmogrify (thanks for that word), the way society interacts, and that sites like blackjackinfo.com have provided a veritable breeding ground for new BJ professionals that would have been impossible to imagine in prior years where a scant number of books and very little personal interaction were all the support it took to manufacture those two hundred to three hundred full-time BJ professionals in the USA, which is to say that although it may be you are right, just possibly, there are far more pro players now than then, especially when you consider those who are simultaneously professional players at more than one game, for example, blackjack and poker, not to mention other possible advantage plays. I did take liberty in interpreting the term full-time BJ professionals, but I think if you are splitting your time between several advantage plays, case in point, James Grosjean, you may still lay claim to the title, unless blackjack is an insignificant source of overall income. If you insist on the concept of a full-time blackjack professional as one who spends nearly all his time on blackjack, then you are probably right; poker is just too big an advantage play in today's world (how did you say it, a couple of million fish to fleece?) to expect that upcoming advantage players would deliberately ignore it to devote themselves exclusively to blackjack.
And another phenomenon-- today we have a slew of so-called recreational or part-time card counters, who nevertheless, play the game well enough to stay in the winning column, but who will never, generally by choice, move into the full-time professional bracket. They are good, they play at a professional level of competence, but have chosen other means to a living, primarily ordinary jobs, but still gain plenty of satisfaction beating the casinos on weekends and vacations. Imagine the combined impact of these thousands of recreational or part-time players! They may well present a greater threat to the casinos in the aggregate than all the full-time professionals put together, and their numbers are growing rapidly with the proliferation of blackjack books and help sites on the internet.
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
A Typo Aslan?
I think you meant to say
pseudo counters
and how the casinos are making money off of them
When the movie 21 came out there were casinos that had the movie 21advertising on their bj tables
Casinos have historically and will continue to make money from bj
I think you meant to say
pseudo counters
and how the casinos are making money off of them
When the movie 21 came out there were casinos that had the movie 21advertising on their bj tables
Casinos have historically and will continue to make money from bj
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
The Real Threats to Casino Bottom Line
too leveraged
If in business awhile then the pay of some of the long term employees is to high.
poor management:
full tables are bad
not dealing enough cards in an hr. to much time spent shuffling and not dealing deep enough
To many pit bosses, when they are standing in group talking sports, you have to many.:joker::whip:
Take some time to notice how the civilians get crushed at bj:joker::whip:
too leveraged
If in business awhile then the pay of some of the long term employees is to high.
poor management:
full tables are bad
not dealing enough cards in an hr. to much time spent shuffling and not dealing deep enough
To many pit bosses, when they are standing in group talking sports, you have to many.:joker::whip:
Take some time to notice how the civilians get crushed at bj:joker::whip:
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Not Certain
I am pondering the definition of the word "professional":joker::whip:
I am pondering the definition of the word "professional":joker::whip:
I think you're inflating the effect of those who do not have to play for a living.aslan said:
One of my close friend is a cycling enthusiast.
He bikes way better than most of his peers in town, and knows as much as a shop owner on how to fix problems with bikes. Incidentally, he's the one who built the bike that I ride to commute. But that's where the story ends.
It's been some time since I picked up guitar and music. During the first couple years I practiced hard. 5-8 hrs per day wasn't so uncommon and all day and night practices weren't unprecedented either. These days I go on months without even touching it, but when I do it only takes no more than a few days to play well. Does that mean that I can play at a professional level? Not even close.
Another dear friend of mine has no income other than playing bass. That's with which he pays his bills. I've met and jammed with other cats in town, but not a single person plays even close to his level, and yes that includes music majors and more experienced players some of whom played 10+ yrs more than him as a hobbyist. He just always knows what needs to be done, not to mention all the networking he gets with those who share the profession.
English is my second language, and I'm bilingual. As such, I've offered a hand in translating between two parties when occasions called for it, and I've been compensated in some of them. If I were to do that for a living, I better do a hell of a better job or I'll starve.
If part-timers stop making profit, big deal. Juice ran dry and they look for their oasis elsewhere.
If recreational players stop having recreation from the game, then that's that.
Does it take more than common sense to realize that those who are left on the Rio Grande are inevitably doing something that make them last?
I'll leave advanced techniques aside, and just consider a straight counting game.
Those who can make the ends meet by the game itself are likely to be playing with bankrolls deeper than most non-pros ever will.
Full-timers are not restricted by geographical and temporal restrictions that follows dayjobs.
Consequently, they can move around as needed and play better games. How much proportion of part-timers live close to bountiful good games?
Lastly, it's so easy to make errors with card counting and just as easy to fail to notice them. Think about it: if you notice it, you would correct it right away. I've just begun to actually comprehend that it takes much to get it down solid; I just don't know how much. So I keep trying.
I don't imagine a vast majority having a partner with whom they practice. Not only practicing alone makes it difficult to tell which is the one roulade you can't sing, preparation of a full checkout for myself takes a little more than twice the time it takes than actually going through the checkout. Real anal-ache.
By all means, I'm not implying that you or anybody in particular for that matter are incompetent nor am I saying that I'm a strong player.
Playing around with a software will get you as far as cue dependent learning will allow you.
All that books can do is to make better judgments. They don't translate directly to procedural memory. As far as I know, we're not living in the Matrix.
Certainly, I have no doubt that some folks play strong games even if they just do this on a side, but a greater threat than all full-timers combined? Not by a long shot.
aslan
Well-Known Member
You might want to try an easier counting system, if you are having trouble. KO or Red Seven would be two such systems. If it's good enough for Grosjean, it can't be all that bad compared to more advanced systems, of course, realizing that he has more going for him than just card counting.LIB said:
You're probably right that all the recreational counters in the country do not surpass all the professional players in terms of dollar threat to the casinos, but I'm not certain of that when I consider all the highly competent players just here on blackjackinfo who did not identify themselves as professional players in the recent poll. It would not take many of them winning on a smaller scale than a pro to add up to one pro, and if the number of pros is not all that high, well, figure it out. Playing most every weekend is a pretty steady assault on the casinos even if it's $25, $15 or $10 mins. And we really don't have any handle on just how many recreational, or part-time, players are out there. Is it hundreds (that much is evident just from this one bj site) or is it thousands or tens of thousands. Not everyone who counts joins a site, and not everyone joins this site. There are so many books out there now to teach the craft, and not everyone who learns is comfortable with online chatter. But, like I said, you're probably right, but even if so, will it eventually turn the other way? Happily, it's just one more thing for the casinos to worry about. I'm not losing any sleep over it. :laugh: