best counting system

[BJinNJ]

OK, but don't learn HiLoLITE or ZEN as provided in the book - just ask us when you are ready. We may ultimately put you on Mentor or UBZ or even KO, it will depend on our assesment drawn from your continued discussion here. zg

I'm ready to decide which system and have narrowed it down to Hi/Lo or
Mentor. Haven't read any of Snyder's books yet, but have Pro BJ '94,
Revere, Thorp, Blaine, Renzey (BJBBII), Carlson and others.

Any reasons to prefer Hi/Lo or Mentor? I like Hi/Lo because it's all out there.
Pro BJ is like a bible for this count. Useful for potential team play.

Mentor is good for me too. I like the symmetry of the count. Nearly all cards
get a value. Renzey provides full indices. Just questioning the single deck
efficiency.

Any input appreciated.

BJinNJ

 

[zengrifter]

I'm ready to decide which system and have narrowed it down to Hi/Lo or
Mentor. Haven't read any of Snyder's books yet, but have Pro BJ '94,
Revere, Thorp, Blaine, Renzey (BJBBII), Carlson and others.

Any reasons to prefer Hi/Lo or Mentor? I like Hi/Lo because it's all out there.
Pro BJ is like a bible for this count. Useful for potential team play.

Mentor is good for me too. I like the symmetry of the count. Nearly all cards
get a value. Renzey provides full indices. Just questioning the single deck
efficiency.

Any input appreciated.

BJinNJ

Mentor is comparable to ZEN and I like the 2D-based TC. I give it high marks.

Renzey's betting schedule is a little confusing, so you'll need a custom-derived betting schedule for the game(s) you play. zg

 

[Beast]

Mentor is comparable to ZEN and I like the 2D-based TC. I give it high marks.

Renzey's betting schedule is a little confusing, so you'll need a custom-derived betting schedule for the game(s) you play. zg

Hi,

I've been out of BJ for a while......where can I find info on this Mentor count? Is this the TKO renamed?

Good luck in LV.

Beast

 

[moo321]

I always recommend Hi-Lo, unless maybe you're going to be playing a ton of single and double deck. Easy, good for team play, good for shuffle tracking.

 

[zengrifter]

....where can I find info on this Mentor count? Is this the TKO renamed?

No, its a balance level-2 count found in BJ Bluebook. zg

 

[BJinNJ]

Playing Mostly East Coast/AC Shoes. Trips to MS, LV are OK.

Thanks for the input.

I have CVCX, so can probably generate custom bet schedules.
Haven't really played with CVCX yet.

How does Mentor do with single deck?renzey says DD to 8D it's
very good.

BJinNJ

 

[zengrifter]

Fred Renzey

How does Mentor do with single deck?renzey says DD to 8D it's very good.

Its a fine count for any# decks.

Hey Fred - please clarify the betting schedule for this aspiring Mentor player,
then I'll say why the published schedule is prone for confusion. zg

 

[BJinNJ]

Its a fine count for any# decks.

Hey Fred - please clarify the betting schedule for this aspiring Mentor player,
then I'll say why the published schedule is prone for confusion. zg

I just found a small section in the back of Chpt. 11 of BJBBII that goes into
single deck Mentor. Looks good.

Why do you mention a problem with the betting schedule? Will you elaborate?

BJinNJ

 

[zengrifter]

I just found a small section in the back of Chpt. 11 of BJBBII that goes into
single deck Mentor. Looks good.

Why do you mention a problem with the betting schedule? Will you elaborate?

I'd like Fred to go first. zg

 

[BJLover]

And in general the published versions of systems are NOT the superior versions - not

The current published version of ZEN has been proven - proven inferior.

AND Mimosine's UBZ is superior to George C's version.

And in general the published versions of systems are NOT the superior versions - not RPC, ZEN, AO2, KO, HiLo, etc.

However, I did say in this thread that he should have that book (Blackbelt). In fact, no serious aspiring counter would
be without a half-dozen of the top books. zg

Hi, i found this an interesting quote. i am currently using KO count and have been using the book as my reference to it. Is there more accurate/improved data on the KO count from another source???

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

if your flat betting, wonging, and using indexes, which would be better, KO or hi-lo? i currently have learned hi-lo, but im not good at true count conversion, but since im flat betting, its not too important, as i only have 13 indexes (+1 to +5).. i heard there is rookie KO, then a more complex version, then the true count one which i think is called TKO, i would be using the middle one

 

[ChefJJ]

if your flat betting, wonging, and using indexes, which would be better, KO or hi-lo? i currently have learned hi-lo, but im not good at true count conversion, but since im flat betting, its not too important, as i only have 13 indexes (+1 to +5).. i heard there is rookie KO, then a more complex version, then the true count one which i think is called TKO, i would be using the middle one

If you are going to learn KO and do what you say you are doing, then learn the Preferred version. There is no TC conversion, and you get the index plays based on only several count levels.

The Rookie KO version really only teaches bet changes, which you aren't doing. The Preferred KO version adds the 18 index plays and bet sizing.

good luck

 

[BJinNJ]

Any New Input Here?

Mentor is comparable to ZEN and I like the 2D-based TC. I give it high marks.

Renzey's betting schedule is a little confusing, so you'll need a custom-derived betting schedule for the game(s) you play. zg

Where's Mr. Renzey? I'd like to find out what ZG is referring to re: the
published betting schedule.

I start training next week, and inquiring minds want to know!

Can I use CVCX to generate custom bet schedules for Mentor?
(I believe so)

TIA for any/all input.

BJinNJ

 

[zengrifter]

Where's Mr. Renzey? I'd like to find out what ZG is referring to re: the
published betting schedule.

Fred seems to be on vacation, so here: His betting schedule for defferent #decks (1-2-4-6) seem to imply that the greater the #decks the higher the max bet, which is wrong. If you have the Blue Book handy, tell us the min and max bet for each game. zg

 

[Preston]

Mentor Count betting Strategy

Here is the mentor count betting strategy.. I just hope I type this out right:

Single Deck:

off the top: 2u
thru +5: 1u
+6: 2u
+7: 3u
+8 and above: 4u

Double Deck

same as single deck but at +10 bet 6u

Four deck:

off the top: 2u
thru +5: 1u
+6: 3u
+7: 5u
+8: 8u\
+10 and up: 9u

Six Deck

Same as four deck but at +10 and up: 10u

eight Deck:

Same as six deck but at +12: 12u

this is from Renzey's Bluebook. Page 203

I have had really good success with mentor count.

 

[zengrifter]

Here is the mentor count betting strategy.. I just hope I type this out right:

Single Deck:

off the top: 2u
thru +5: 1u
+6: 2u
+7: 3u
+8 and above: 4u

Double Deck

same as single deck but at +10 bet 6u

Four deck:

off the top: 2u
thru +5: 1u
+6: 3u
+7: 5u
+8: 8u\
+10 and up: 9u

Six Deck

Same as four deck but at +10 and up: 10u

eight Deck:

Same as six deck but at +12: 12u

this is from Renzey's Bluebook. Page 203

I have had really good success with mentor count.

Exactly - it looks like the 8D max bet is 3x bigger than the 1D max bet.

This is why I say that his betting schedule is confusing. zg

 

[Preston]

how does zen differ?

 

[zengrifter]

how does zen differ?

In what way way? ZEN is very similar to Mentor. zg

 

[BJinNJ]

Larger Spread = Higher Max Bet?

Isn't one supposed to spread more in an 8 deck game
compared to a SD/DD/4D deck game? Perhaps the 3X
factor isn't big enough?

Maybe I need to study more!

Thanks for your input. I didn't want this thread to get lost
in the archives.

BJinNJ

 

[zengrifter]

Larger Spread = Higher Max Bet? Isn't one supposed to spread more in an 8 deck game
compared to a SD/DD/4D deck game?

Spread more, yes. Larger Spread = Higher Max Bet? NO.
The max bet should be the same - spread is increased by reducing min bet:

#Ds / Max / Min / Type

1 / 100 / 20 / PLAY-ALL
2 / 100 / 10 / PLAY-ALL
6 / 100 / 05 / PLAY-ALL
6 / 100 / 20 / WONG-(IN)
6 / 100 / 10 / WONG-(OUT)

Most BJ authors oddly obscure this issue, confuses newbies.

Calc your max first, then calc your spread. zg