Dealer not allowing you to wong out on a DD game

[Tarzan]

6:5 preferable to 3:2 and beat the game without counting?

Sucker-----I am by no means a gambler who enjoys living on the edge. In the last two years I have made more money playing 6:5 blackjack than all other blackjack games combined. I PREFER this game over most 3:2 games, for reasons I cannot go into.

Given the right approach; there is no game in any casino that cannot be beaten. Sometimes you have to think outside the box.


NYnefingers-----I agree that there are times that 6:5 can be preferable to 3:2, and I certainly agree with your final statement, but you must admit that you're looking at things from a different perspective than most others in this thread. It's a waste of time to try to count a 6:5 game.

MasterofNone-----If you walk by a 6-5 table merely because it is 6-5, without considering penetration, shuffle, dealer habits, heat, etc. then you are closing your eyes to some good opportunities to walk away a winner. Because it is 6-5 I have found the pit could care less about counting, bet spread, etc. You read too much into my statement. I am not talking about the LV strip.


Sometimes a few profound statements pop up that defy any logical explanation other than the person that wrote it is lying, out of their mind or somehow slightly delusional. Assuming none of these apply, I would love to see your incredible gaming expertise in action because you are obviously better players than me and way out of my league!

My concerns are the general public reading these sorts of statements/posts and thinking these games/rules are playable or somehow beatable. My apologies to Ninous26 for taking this thread off in a strange direction of nebulous fantasy.

 

[Gamblor]

Sucker-----I am by no means a gambler who enjoys living on the edge. In the last two years I have made more money playing 6:5 blackjack than all other blackjack games combined. I PREFER this game over most 3:2 games, for reasons I cannot go into.

Given the right approach; there is no game in any casino that cannot be beaten. Sometimes you have to think outside the box.


NYnefingers-----I agree that there are times that 6:5 can be preferable to 3:2, and I certainly agree with your final statement, but you must admit that you're looking at things from a different perspective than most others in this thread. It's a waste of time to try to count a 6:5 game.

MasterofNone-----If you walk by a 6-5 table merely because it is 6-5, without considering penetration, shuffle, dealer habits, heat, etc. then you are closing your eyes to some good opportunities to walk away a winner. Because it is 6-5 I have found the pit could care less about counting, bet spread, etc. You read too much into my statement. I am not talking about the LV strip.


Sometimes a few profound statements pop up that defy any logical explanation other than the person that wrote it is lying, out of their mind or somehow slightly delusional. Assuming none of these apply, I would love to see your incredible gaming expertise in action because you are obviously better players than me and way out of my league!

My concerns are the general public reading these sorts of statements/posts and thinking these games/rules are playable or somehow beatable. My apologies to Ninous26 for taking this thread off in a strange direction of nebulous fantasy.

I generally tend to leave these statements alone. Its unfortunate if the general public is misled (if it is misleading), but it wouldn't be bad if certain other people are misled.

While the Eye of Sauron is cast afar, then we can sneak into Mordor.

 

[Nynefingers]

Sorry if I misled anyone. You should absolutely avoid 6:5 games. This is true for 99.99+% of people. If this doesn't apply to you, you'll know it. I'm not aware of a way to gain an advantage by counting a 6:5 game. I'm sure there are people out there that have gained a real advantage counting 6:5 games with great conditions, but I'm equally sure that if your focus is counting, you would almost certainly be better off at the best non-6:5 game available. So to repeat, it's a waste of time to try to count a 6:5 game.

 

[Sucker]

Sorry if I misled anyone. You should absolutely avoid 6:5 games. This is true for 99.99+% of people. If this doesn't apply to you, you'll know it. I'm not aware of a way to gain an advantage by counting a 6:5 game. I'm sure there are people out there that have gained a real advantage counting 6:5 games with great conditions, but I'm equally sure that if your focus is counting, you would almost certainly be better off at the best non-6:5 game available. So to repeat, it's a waste of time to try to count a 6:5 game.

100% agreed. Also sorry if I misled anyone. My response was to a specific statement; I should've just kept my mouth shut anyway.

you are obviously better players than me and way out of my league!

I've read enough of Mr. Tarzan's opinions to know that this statement is false. I'm sure that he could also show US a thing or two!

 

[aslan]

It seems to me it must have been a NME game and the dealer thought incorrectly that the player wanted to sit out a hand or two...and then return. Once you sit out a hand, you are out for the duration of the deal, since the NME rule prevails. If it was anything other than that, I cannot understand the dealer's actions.

 

[Cardcounter]

I've had a ploppy complain about me wonging out and a dealer complain about me wonging in (even not dealing me a hand), but I've never seen anything like this. You can do a lot of things, ranging from coloring *down* and taking all the chips off the table to telling her to **** off, but probably the best thing to do from a longevity standpoint is to just get up and leave looking confused.

A dealer can stop you from wonging in they can't stop you from wonging out. A lot of the time on a one or two deck game the house speciefies that you must wait until the shuffle. A love wonging out on a bad count. All you have to do is leave go to the bathroom, go eat a meal, or quit for the day.

 

[alwayssplitaces]

With 6-5, you only get an advantage at TC+4. You'd need it heads up and 8 rounds to make it worthwhile. Or you can watch a full table and take insurance on every player's spot if the insurance count is positive.

Here's an example of why 6-5 is so costly. I played about 4200 hands of single deck 3-2 blackjack. I always bet an odd amount so that a BJ would give me a 50 cent coin (I estimate the number of hands played by multiplying the number of 50 cent coins I have by 20.7, since a natural occurs every 20.7 hands on average). I use the 50 cent coins I get from insurance losses for tips. It's important to know how many hands I play to calculate my winrate and hands-per-hour. Keeping a tally of how many hands I play would look suspicious, so this is the best way to approximate it. It's not suspicious to hoard the 50 cent coins since ploppies hoard them too.

After ~4200 hands, I had over $100 worth of those half dollars. I only got those half dollars because blackjack pays 3-2. Of course the $100 isn't all the gain from 3-2 vs 6-5, but it's a good way to visualize the gain.

After I'm done counting the number of coins I have to analyze my play, it's nice to spend those 50 cent coins since people don't see them often and sometimes they're thrilled to receive them since they think they're rare. And I like having a story to tell when spending those coins (each coin represents a blackjack).

 

[Sucker]

I always bet an odd amount so that a BJ would give me a 50 cent coin

A barber-pole betting style - by anyone at the table - will have a negative effect on an AP's hourly win rate.

 

[LovinItAll]

With 6-5, you only get an advantage at TC+4. You'd need it heads up and 8 rounds to make it worthwhile. Or you can watch a full table and take insurance on every player's spot if the insurance count is positive.

Here's an example of why 6-5 is so costly. I played about 4200 hands of single deck 3-2 blackjack. I always bet an odd amount so that a BJ would give me a 50 cent coin (I estimate the number of hands played by multiplying the number of 50 cent coins I have by 20.7, since a natural occurs every 20.7 hands on average). I use the 50 cent coins I get from insurance losses for tips. It's important to know how many hands I play to calculate my winrate and hands-per-hour. Keeping a tally of how many hands I play would look suspicious, so this is the best way to approximate it. It's not suspicious to hoard the 50 cent coins since ploppies hoard them too.

After ~4200 hands, I had over $100 worth of those half dollars. I only got those half dollars because blackjack pays 3-2. Of course the $100 isn't all the gain from 3-2 vs 6-5, but it's a good way to visualize the gain.

After I'm done counting the number of coins I have to analyze my play, it's nice to spend those 50 cent coins since people don't see them often and sometimes they're thrilled to receive them since they think they're rare. And I like having a story to tell when spending those coins (each coin represents a blackjack).

Preface: 6:5 blows, etc.

According to the first link you should see if you Google 'can 6:5 blackjack be beaten', according to the author, a player begins to get an edge at TC=+2. The article goes on to talk about the conditions necessary to beat a 6:5 game.

Discussing how bad 6:5 is, a shift supervisor once said to me, "I don't even care if someone counts the 6:5 game. In fact, I'll do it for 'em!"

Though not a complete sweat shop, this store is sensitive in a relative way.

Best ~ L.I.A.