gibsonlp33stl
Well-Known Member
Yea - not the most ethical thing...but when people treat others badly, they get what is coming to them. No pity for that ploppy from here.JSTAT said:
Disgruntled
- Thread starter Tarzan
- Start date
It wasnt cheating. its called pref shuffling. I hate smokers. If murder were legal, i would have shot him instead. worthless pos. The sad part is our tax dollars are going to pay for his hospital bills when he gets sick in the coming years. I had a dealer at binions do the same to me when i didnt tip. he shuffled when i raised my bet. I went to the next table. In laughlin there was one casino that would always shuffle on single deck if you raised it 1 to 3.Its not cheating.its just not nice. Cheating is knowing the direct outcome of your actions.He could have won in negative counts. Ive lost a ton on positive counts.BTW JSAT, the name of the thread is DISGRUNTLED. this is the place for those views.Why do you feel sorry for this ass anyway. Its attempted murder on his part. you must be a smoker. you think you have a right too do whatever you want.
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ihate17
Well-Known Member
Preferential shuffling is a form of cheating
You have manipulatated the floating odds on a blackjack table. Basically, when the cards are favoring the house you deal deep and when the cards favor the player you shuffle. That is the form of cheating that El Dorado did with Mindplay in Reno till the Gaming Board Ruled that there must be an 8 hand delay on real time count information given to the pit, which killed the cheating on single deck. They cheated with a device, you cheat without one.
In a house where their procedure is to shuffle up when a player increases his bet by X amount, it is somewhat different. The player may not be counting, just on a run or steaming and the dealer most likely is not counting either. A counter may even increase a bet to cause a shuffle in a netgative count. Many variables, very annoying to many of us, but I do not consider this cheating. Your case: You can empty the pockets of a flat betting ploppy because you are changing the overall odds on the game by never dealing positive counts.
The beauty, for you, is that the non counting player will never know that you are cheating him. To me, it makes your crime even worse, since you are taking extra from the uneducated clueless class of players. Your method will not work on a counter because he will quickly figure out what you are doing and leave.
Cheating ploppies, the people who donate the most to your casino, is really low.
ihate17
lucifer said:
You have manipulatated the floating odds on a blackjack table. Basically, when the cards are favoring the house you deal deep and when the cards favor the player you shuffle. That is the form of cheating that El Dorado did with Mindplay in Reno till the Gaming Board Ruled that there must be an 8 hand delay on real time count information given to the pit, which killed the cheating on single deck. They cheated with a device, you cheat without one.
In a house where their procedure is to shuffle up when a player increases his bet by X amount, it is somewhat different. The player may not be counting, just on a run or steaming and the dealer most likely is not counting either. A counter may even increase a bet to cause a shuffle in a netgative count. Many variables, very annoying to many of us, but I do not consider this cheating. Your case: You can empty the pockets of a flat betting ploppy because you are changing the overall odds on the game by never dealing positive counts.
The beauty, for you, is that the non counting player will never know that you are cheating him. To me, it makes your crime even worse, since you are taking extra from the uneducated clueless class of players. Your method will not work on a counter because he will quickly figure out what you are doing and leave.
Cheating ploppies, the people who donate the most to your casino, is really low.
ihate17
I only did this once. other players werent as rude. I dont feel guilty. He was spitting in my face as far as im concerned and deserved it. I promise you, if you would have dealt to this asshole, you would have done the same thing.this guy was the king of aholes.your typical arrogant smoker that thinks everyone should enjoy breathing their filt.I hope he has cancer now.
callipygian
Well-Known Member
That's assuming the story is true.Martin Gayle said:
ihate17
Well-Known Member
What if there were other players at this table?
Was he alone at the table? You need not answer, but just think about the other people being not only cheated by you but who also got his smoke at your table.
ihate17
I understand and agree that you should be pissed at this guy, it just does not justify cheating him.lucifer said:
Was he alone at the table? You need not answer, but just think about the other people being not only cheated by you but who also got his smoke at your table.
ihate17
Mimosine
Well-Known Member
i disagree, somewhat.....Martin Gayle said:
a positive count doesn't guarantee a win anymore than a negative count.
that fact that he "lost his shirt" was not a function of whether the shoe was positive or negative. the player was going to lose on average 48% of his hands anyway.... the posters thinking that he caused the guy to lose his shirt is misguided at best. now if they played through 10,000 hands then maybe you might start to see the effects.... what does a negative shoe add to the house edge? and extra 1%, big whop-ti-do. now you're playing a game with a 1.5% HE, not 0.5%, assuming the player was even using BS. Let's be nerds and assume the player already had a HE of 1.5%, add on negative preferential shuffles, now what is the HE at, 2.5%? still better than 3CP.
1 hour of this practice will not have a statistically significant effect on anyones' winning.
The main reason why i can empathize, while not necessarily agreeing is that MORE often than not dealers are forced (and the players at their tables) to tolerate VERY bad behavior. I have seen some incredibly bad behavior at a very nice casino that I play at. The pit at this joint is overly tolerant of players even cursing out the dealer. i have literally cringed on numerous occasions. additionally this house has some of the nicest, best trained dealers around, that will deal a FAIR game........that never make any smart comments if you are raising bets, they just let you do your thing. Whether they are oblivious or not is a question i can't answer without talking to some people who work there.... 3 dealers whom i've played with many times, and tipped only modestly give excellent pen, 2 of them give me special pen, the kind of pen that is only dreamed about now.....
it is very frustrating as a player to play with these SOB players sometimes..... especially when there are interfering with good conditions for me...
*drops 2 tokes*
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Katweezel
Well-Known Member
Chuck's cure for smokeblowers
Yeah, I hate being forced to breathe someone else's toxic fumes too. No guns allowed in there so you can't open fire. But you can retaliate just like Chuck Norris does: Give em a good roundhouse kick fair in the face. HE gets away with it... :cat:lucifer said:
winr_winr_chicken_dinner!
Well-Known Member
Cheating, not sure, I don't really want to call it that. It's happened to me as a countermeasure, and it sucks. Damn count just keeps climbing but you never see a X. After a little while of that, you get up and switch pits or stores. The key is to recognize it for what it is and do something about it. I know about variance, but I know a lot of you guys have had this done to you deliberately once in a while by a skilled dealer too.
I smoke sometimes, sometimes not. When I do I try to be as considerate as I can, keep the smoke out of everyone's face, and if asked by another player I will take extra measures to try to keep the smoke away from them, or not smoke.
Sounds like the player was a real XXXhole, but then again, you have a job to do as a dealer and if smoke bothers you you should tell your employer that they can only put you on the non-smoking tables from now on... Ok, I know that's not gonna' happen. If the guy is blowing smoke in your face and you can't "make" him stop, complain to your floor or ask the guy to find another table, but don't short him on the cards.
Just my two cents...
I smoke sometimes, sometimes not. When I do I try to be as considerate as I can, keep the smoke out of everyone's face, and if asked by another player I will take extra measures to try to keep the smoke away from them, or not smoke.
Sounds like the player was a real XXXhole, but then again, you have a job to do as a dealer and if smoke bothers you you should tell your employer that they can only put you on the non-smoking tables from now on... Ok, I know that's not gonna' happen. If the guy is blowing smoke in your face and you can't "make" him stop, complain to your floor or ask the guy to find another table, but don't short him on the cards.
Just my two cents...
Martin Gayle
Well-Known Member
You say you disagree somewhat but then the content of your post shows why he is cheating, except that he isn't cheating very much, only a little. Which is true!Mimosine said:
Anyways, preferential shuffle is illegal in NV. I am unsure about other jurisdictions but it is only useful on SD and DD game. The problem is it is very, very hard to prove. The only ones who will pick it up are AP's, but then an AP isn't going to "out" himself by accusing the dealer/pit of pref shuffle.
Preferential shuffle is therefore not a very useful deterrent for card counters and is probably not even as effective as being "shuffled up on" as the ends are the same. A CC worth his weight will never have big money on the table. Pref shuffle is more difficult than a PB saying to the dealer, "if that guy raises his bet, shuffle up".
Preferential shuffle was introduced in NV to crush the Whales who were not counting. I am not sure but I assume it was exposed when they shifted from dealer pref shuffle to having a computer do it.
If a casino offers good games with high variance it will risk a noticable loss to a Whale. However, if you never give the Whale a good count you are effecting the odds and taking more money in the long run from him than is mathematically expected by his play.
Lucifer used preferential shuffle to change the odds to the man who was taking part in a normal and still accepted activity (smoking) that he didn't like. The fact that he didn't like the guy is no excuse. It would be as good as excuse as pref shuffling on him because you don't like him because he is gay, he is a rich whale, a counter, an immigrant or a woman.
As to saying you only did it once. Please refer to the old American proverb that begins, "If you drive a truck once you are not a truck driver. But if you suck one..."
Lucifer you are a cheat.
Edit: Mimosie in case I misunderstood your post The house edge of say 0.35 is assuming the full compostion of an unbiased deck. If a flat bettor bet $10 he/she is expected to lose at 0.35%. You win as often in big counts but win more money, for the counter and for the flat bettor. If pref shuffle is used the flat bettor will have less BJ's and less successful doubles and the dealer would bust less OVERALL. Therefore the deck is biased. I hope you understand how it works. It will effect the W-L rate. It would be the same as effectivley starting the deck short a couple X or even A's.
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Martin Gayle
Well-Known Member
lol.callipygian said:
UncrownedKing
Well-Known Member
I'll bet you as much money as you want, that in a high positive count I will win more money than a low negative count.Mimosine said:
Martin Gayle
Well-Known Member
Black chip.Mimosine said:
Need to agree on parametres and a way to measure this.
Realistically the shuffle comes as soon as the count goes +ve. I don't have software that can measure this.
Proposed parametres. SD game. Player will play basic strategy according to advertised rules. Player will never adjust to count. Player will flat bet. Dealer will ensure stub is always rich in one X. Therefore, theoretically the player will always be playing at a -1 count and never adjust to it. I realise the change is going to be mathematically small, but I am sure it will be there.
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Martin Gayle
Well-Known Member
Are we on Mimosine?
Are we on or are you convinced?
Are we on or are you convinced?