Wow! It took my a little while to constuct my previous post, LG and in that time, you posted this beauty of a post, which pretty much re-inforces my thoughts exactly. (and certainly expressed them far better than I could) Thank you greatly, Sir.Lonesome Gambler said:
Whoa!kewljason said:
I was recently scolded by a couple full time players based in Las vegas for encouraging players to come here, so I am setting the record straight.aslan said:
Here's one respect where Vegas and the midwest are the same-----there are opportunities for diligent people in both areas!!!!!kewljason said:I was recently scolded by a couple full time players based in Las vegas for encouraging players to come here, so I am setting the record straight.
It's horrible here. Only a handfull of blackjack games, none beatable. Crowded conditions. Can never get a seat at the tables. Outrageously high real estate prices and horrendous weather most of the year. Cold dark and dreary. It's just a horrible place to be in general and especially for AP opportunities.
The midwest is where it's at (and happening).
Canceling my trip and heading to St. Louis! zgkewljason said:I was recently scolded by a couple full time players based in Las vegas for encouraging players to come here, so I am setting the record straight.
It's horrible here. Only a handfull of blackjack games, none beatable. Crowded conditions. Can never get a seat at the tables. Outrageously high real estate prices and horrendous weather most of the year. Cold dark and dreary. It's just a horrible place to be in general and especially for AP opportunities.
The midwest is where it's at (and happening).
Just as I thought! St. Louis, here I come!kewljason said:I was recently scolded by a couple full time players based in Las vegas for encouraging players to come here, so I am setting the record straight.
It's horrible here. Only a handfull of blackjack games, none beatable. Crowded conditions. Can never get a seat at the tables. Outrageously high real estate prices and horrendous weather most of the year. Cold dark and dreary. It's just a horrible place to be in general and especially for AP opportunities.
The midwest is where it's at (and happening).
Yes, what ZG says. Pulled this move myself on occassion after getting some heat. Hopefully you can get them bored to tears of watching your stupid play. Ha ha, a ploppy was so concerned about my winnings, and suggested I put my purple chips away and just play with my remaining reds. Why thank you ploppy, very good advice :laugh:zengrifter said:
The problem with that is that whether initiated from above or by the pit, any skills check will take place from above and all that hooping and hollering and chatting, laughing, friendly part of an act, is wasted on them. They are looking for 2 things bet correlation and strategy changes by count. The full act is more effective at preventing them from looking at you. Once they have decided to do so you are rarely going to change their mind. You may buy yourself a very little bit of extra time with heavy cover, but you aren't going to win the war at that point. Better to cut your losses and live to fight another day. Get out as quickly as you can.Gamblor said:
Agreed, in your situation its just best to move on, you won so much, and you were a regular, so it would be a waste of time and money to go full camo.kewljason said:The problem with that is that whether initiated from above or by the pit, any skills check will take place from above and all that hooping and hollering and chatting, laughing, friendly part of an act, is wasted on them. They are looking for 2 things bet correlation and strategy changes by count. The full act is more effective at preventing them from looking at you. Once they have decided to do so you are rarely going to change their mind. You may buy yourself a very little bit of extra time with heavy cover, but you aren't going to win the war at that point. Better to cut your losses and live to fight another day. Get out as quickly as you can.
And come back later to cash your chips. They didn't ctr you at the table, did they? If so, smile at the camera... :grin:kewljason said:The problem with that is that whether initiated from above or by the pit, any skills check will take place from above and all that hooping and hollering and chatting, laughing, friendly part of an act, is wasted on them. They are looking for 2 things bet correlation and strategy changes by count. The full act is more effective at preventing them from looking at you. Once they have decided to do so you are rarely going to change their mind. You may buy yourself a very little bit of extra time with heavy cover, but you aren't going to win the war at that point. Better to cut your losses and live to fight another day. Get out as quickly as you can.
Well I know this thread is/was about that particular session and the fall out from it, but I am really not talking specifics. The comments I just made about living to fight another day is just my personal opinion of how most low/mid level players should play. Especially if you are playing anonymously. Since they can't just punch in your name and see when you last played, if they want to get a good look at your play, let them manually search for previously recorded sessions. Yes I know they could try to match using facial recog, but that really doesn't do much. Someone is really going to have to sit down and spend some time looking for you. At that level of play, my guess is your not worth it.Gamblor said:
Agreed, I don't think they'll bother to pull up video tape on red/green player (or suspected AP w/o a huge advantage), in fact I think we tend to overestimate how often surveillance would do this, as we fear the unknown. Maybe exgriffinman can give some more insight on this. Would imagine its a pain to pull up old videos etc.,kewljason said:
The problem is that to get the reasonable win rates we want, we need to spread this hard - and how to avoid surveillance noticing is a real dilemma. I can't figure out how good surveillance at some places are, but there are others which are really sharp. It's surprising that surveillance is better at some of the smaller joints than the big ones. Or maybe, the smaller joints won't tolerate as much - whereas the large joints see what you're doing, but they're tolerating you since your spread isn't big enough to be a threat to them.ohbehave said:
LOL. No.creeping panther said:
The smaller joints are operating on a thinner margin. They can't afford what larger joints would call small hits. I have a Russian friend who was in Vegas with a big bettor from Moscow. The casino actually brought a table, dealer and all, to their suite. It's hard to imagine some of the gambling that goes on in the larger casinos. In October I heard about a Korean fellow who was beating one of the major houses by a few $million; if you were playing a $25 table and spreading 20 times you couldn't have attracted any attention on that day. The larger casinos are so used to the big play, I imagine it is boring to watch a $25 game. I'm not saying they won't; they are paid to do just that, if something bigger isn't going on at the same time. Eyes are people, just like you and me. What they want to do is catch a big fish like a Grosjean, now that's a feather in their cap, not some card counting minnow like myself. And they are trained to protect the casino from losing the large dollars first and foremost, then the little threats, if they can work it in. So, in a way, both the house's interest and the employee's self-interest, both work together to protect the small time card counter.flyingwind said:
Surveillance in most cases will not save the play of a counter unless the house took a large beating. With the days of old, we had video tape and a ton of VCRs which made taking video tapes out of rotation and shelving them for counters costly and inaffective. I've worked stores that had a 25K pull and others were 50K and above.Gamblor said: