First-time BJI poster, with Advice

[captheathmalc]

Do you actually play,in real life casinos?
Dealers no longer know what the bottom card is,only what it is not.
That is why when an Ace is up,they hold the card one way,and hold it a different way when a ten is up.All they can see is a spot on the card that tells them it is the card they need for 21 or they see nothing.Very,very,very few casinos have dealers peeking at their card so they know they have a made hand or a stiff.
What may have worked years ago is next to worthless today.I have played in several dozen casinos and have yet to see the dealer peak at his hole card.

The best argument I have heard yet! Very nice...though it is wrong.

You ask whether I (or we...since you don't define who you were talking to) actually played in "real-life" Casinos. My answer, is obviously yes...though I do you the online for most of my sport-wagers.....nothing else.

Now here is my question to you: Have you ever had the opportunity to actually use one of these tables? Or are you using 3rd and 4th-hand information? I already know the answer to this, because if you had seen, and had the opportunity to "use" one of these tables, then you would never have made your post.

Good argument anyway...... No offense intended.

Heath

 

[captheathmalc]

i just read the entire thread, and i honsetly thing this guy is playing with an advantage. so we know hes doing a "look for low cards and then bet high" strategy. so now this is a VERY basic form of counting. secondly he plays mainly double deck games, again good because a few low cards gives makes relatively large difference to the player edge. also we know he is using a spread, and i think its a ginormous spread from what hes said... cal if you can let me know what your min/max bets are.
finally, for someone to be winning consistantly for 8 years like he has been, are near nothing for a losing player. so just statistically our coveted law of large numbers dictates that he must be playing a winning game.
given these factors, i'm pretty sure he's playing w/ an advantage game.

I believe I already stated this...but I'll do it again in-case I am mistaken: I generally play @ 25/2000 games. I also play the HS sometimes....approximately twice a month. The min/max in HS changes depending on the Casino.

 

[captheathmalc]

Most gamblers believe they have won over their lifetimes.

Interesting perspective.

 

[captheathmalc]

I'm interested in these tells. Do you use the surrender option? When the guy split his 10s was the true count above +5? 54k is a nice take but are you doing it consistently?

If the surrender option is available (rare)...then I will use it at times.

When the guy split his tens..... I am not sure what the "true" count was, since I didn't/don't keep track of it.

Do I win 54K consistently? That would depend on what you qualified as consistent. I am not going to post my journal #'s here, but I will tell you that I am a consistent winner. What is my definition of consistent? For every 2 dollars I lose, I expect to win 3.

 

[QFIT]

Most gamblers are men. Nearly all men believe two things: They are good gamblers and good in bed. The billions in casino profits attest to the error in the former and any woman will tell you how silly the latter.

I advocate extensive practice for both.

 

[captheathmalc]

i'm going to have to lean to agreeing with scotth. when the dealer has 10 up they take a peak in the mirror to see if they have an A under. even if they are only seeing a small point of the letter/number on the card i would think that pro dealers who do this for a living do know what is under. they have to be able to see enough to tell a difference between an A under or 4 under (the tops of these two are the closest together).after dealing and peaking 10's of thousands of hands they would pick up on what they see and what they flip over.

one book i read said to look for dealer tells - they could be anything from how they place their hands to mouth movement etc. IF they do have tells and you can pick up on this it does give you a big advantage. IF they move a certain way with a 5/6 under you could stand on a weak hand and let them bust out instead of you hitting and busting yourself.

I would definitely recommend this book.

In my experience, the two most common tells are the mouth, and the eyes (including brows). Look for an older dealer, with more lines on their face....they are the easiest.

Before you use the tells in practice..... use them at home. Watch the people you know...watch their "keys" (Keys are the eyes,shoulders and mouth...though the way they breath also will be a tell.)

Once you do it at home for a bit...try watching the dealers (while not playing).... try to guess what their hole card is by their expressions/movements,etc. You are only trying to guess if their card is high (A,T) or low(2,3,4,5,6).

Remember: This is only "part" of your strategy...don't get too confident in your ability!!!

However...if you know that a slew of low cards have been played, and the shoe is rich....and the dealer gives a tell, indicating "high"....your accuracy increases dramatically.

 

[captheathmalc]

Most gamblers are men. Nearly all men believe two things: They are good gamblers and good in bed. The billions in casino profits attest to the error in the former and any woman will tell you how silly the latter.

I advocate extensive practice for both.

LOL. I tend to agree with you, on both counts.

 

[Bojack1]

Hello Captain,

Very interesting posts. But I do have a few comments about your tells. When a dealer is using a mirror peeking device to check for blackjack he can't see anything underneath if there is no blackjack. The way casino cards are set up you will notice that 10 valued cards are only marked on 2 corners but higher up than the other cards. Aces have there symbol in all 4 corners but only higher in 2 of them. When the dealer checks for blackjack with a 10 up they will put the card in the device straight in as they sit on the table. If there is anything other than an ace it will show white only. If there is an ace up they will spin the cards horizontal and put it into the peeker that way. If there is no ten than only white will show. The cards for casinos are designed for these peeking devices to take the human element out of it. All other cards other than 10 value and aces have there corner symbols printed much lower so they do not appear in the peeker window. As I'm sure you have seen there are even some peeking devices that are just push button with a red or green light to tell if there is blackjack or not. I do not refute there are ways to take advantages of weak dealers, especially if they are manually liting cards to check for blackjack. But to say you can catch tells on the peeking devices, without saying you're holecarding is something that is hard to fathom. I wish you continued luck, but I hope your tells reading also consists of other things based on seeing cards or capitilizing on certain shuffles, otherwise I think your info may be flawed.

 

[shadroch]

The best argument I have heard yet! Very nice...though it is wrong.

You ask whether I (or we...since you don't define who you were talking to) actually played in "real-life" Casinos. My answer, is obviously yes...though I do you the online for most of my sport-wagers.....nothing else.

Now here is my question to you: Have you ever had the opportunity to actually use one of these tables? Or are you using 3rd and 4th-hand information? I already know the answer to this, because if you had seen, and had the opportunity to "use" one of these tables, then you would never have made your post.

Good argument anyway...... No offense intended.

Heath

So,what do you think the dealer sees when he looks in the mirror?And why do they hold the card differently when checking for tens than they do Aces.
Please educate me,as you feel you know something most people says is impossible.

 

[captheathmalc]

Hello Captain,

Very interesting posts. But I do have a few comments about your tells. When a dealer is using a mirror peeking device to check for blackjack he can't see anything underneath if there is no blackjack. The way casino cards are set up you will notice that 10 valued cards are only marked on 2 corners but higher up than the other cards. Aces have there symbol in all 4 corners but only higher in 2 of them. When the dealer checks for blackjack with a 10 up they will put the card in the device straight in as they sit on the table. If there is anything other than an ace it will show white only. If there is an ace up they will spin the cards horizontal and put it into the peeker that way. If there is no ten than only white will show. The cards for casinos are designed for these peeking devices to take the human element out of it. All other cards other than 10 value and aces have there corner symbols printed much lower so they do not appear in the peeker window. As I'm sure you have seen there are even some peeking devices that are just push button with a red or green light to tell if there is blackjack or not. I do not refute there are ways to take advantages of weak dealers, especially if they are manually liting cards to check for blackjack. But to say you can catch tells on the peeking devices, without saying you're holecarding is something that is hard to fathom. I wish you continued luck, but I hope your tells reading also consists of other things based on seeing cards or capitilizing on certain shuffles, otherwise I think your info may be flawed.

Another very good post, and yet another very good argument.

And you are 100% correct about the cards, and the peeker window. I will assume you either are a dealer (past or present) or have access (now or in the recent past) to the standard BJ table.

Using this assumption, then I can conclude that you are also aware of the flaws of the peeker window:

As hard as casinos try to remove the human element...it will always exist under current conditions (machine-top-deal exception). Even the most veteran dealer...sometimes more-so than the rookie, will make mistakes...very simple mistakes, and undetectable to most. How many times have you watched a dealer have an ace-up , and then look to the peek window...only to have to shift the card, and look again? Same holds true for the Ten-up.
The reliablility of the "peek" window is contingent on card-placement....a human element.

Do this excerciseL Take a piece of chalk, and mark to lines on the end of your table.... then simulate a 2-deck shoe..... each time you get a T/A...place the hole-card over your PW (chalk-lines)...do it at normal speed...not too fast, not too slow. Then...count how many times you miss the mark.

Some casinos even have a small "guider"...but even that does not stop the inevitable.

As for the overall usage of tells...they are dependant on many factors. The dealer just happens to be the largest factor. My reasons for focusing on the dealer in this thread, is that is what was asked of me...... Had someone, for instance, asked me about the dealer cut, and that tell...then this thread would have went in a whole different dirrection.

Nice observation.

 

[captheathmalc]

So,what do you think the dealer sees when he looks in the mirror?And why do they hold the card differently when checking for tens than they do Aces.
Please educate me,as you feel you know something most people says is impossible.

I wonder if your intention for asking me this question is for informational purposes, or to try and debunk what I have said?

For the answer to your question, you can refer to my last post.

As for what I feel...I feel nothing. I do not compare myself to others...only to myself. I am my standard...not anyone else. You say that "most" people say this is impossible...but think about what you are saying. When you say "most people" I will assume you are referring to "most educated BJ players"....if I am incorrect, then let me know. However, education is just that...knowledge. If you are unaware of something, then naturally you will not believe it. SOoooo... if "most" of the "educated black-jack players" that you know, or have met...are unaware of this, or simpily uninterested in learning it...then wouldn't it stand to reason that they would say that it is impossible?
Didn't these same people insist that the world was flat?

None-the-less.... I am not trying to convince you to change your strategies...nor am I trying to recruit followers. And since this thread seems to be taking a turn toward the belligerant, I will stop discussing what I do.

To be fair, I will answer three more posts, and then I am finished with this thread. Thanx for reading, and I hope you learned enough to investigate this further for yourself.

Good-luck

Heath

 

[shadroch]

Nice deflection. But it doesn't alter the fact that your so-called way of reading dealer tells from the way they react to the mirror is simply not correct.The methods you describe are hopelessly outdated,and are not applicable to 99% of todays casinos.
And for the record,not one of the BJ experts I referred to thinks the earth is flat.

 

[Bojack1]

Another very good post, and yet another very good argument.

And you are 100% correct about the cards, and the peeker window. I will assume you either are a dealer (past or present) or have access (now or in the recent past) to the standard BJ table.

Using this assumption, then I can conclude that you are also aware of the flaws of the peeker window:

As hard as casinos try to remove the human element...it will always exist under current conditions (machine-top-deal exception). Even the most veteran dealer...sometimes more-so than the rookie, will make mistakes...very simple mistakes, and undetectable to most. How many times have you watched a dealer have an ace-up , and then look to the peek window...only to have to shift the card, and look again? Same holds true for the Ten-up.
The reliablility of the "peek" window is contingent on card-placement....a human element.

Do this excerciseL Take a piece of chalk, and mark to lines on the end of your table.... then simulate a 2-deck shoe..... each time you get a T/A...place the hole-card over your PW (chalk-lines)...do it at normal speed...not too fast, not too slow. Then...count how many times you miss the mark.

Some casinos even have a small "guider"...but even that does not stop the inevitable.

As for the overall usage of tells...they are dependant on many factors. The dealer just happens to be the largest factor. My reasons for focusing on the dealer in this thread, is that is what was asked of me...... Had someone, for instance, asked me about the dealer cut, and that tell...then this thread would have went in a whole different dirrection.

Nice observation.

No captain I am not nor ever was I a dealer. I am however a professional blackjack player thats been playing with a team since the mid 90's. We even have somewhat of a casino set up we use for practicing, complete with a blackjack table and mirror peeking device. Rechecking of the blackjack is usually due to glare and not because something else was seen. Due to the physical aspect of the cards a sloppy insertion into the peeker makes for even less of a chance to see the underneath card. We play in many states in this country and a few other countries as well, and there is few if any casinos that do not use a 90 degree guide in the peeker device. Therefore it is virtually impossible to push the bottom card up too far thus seeing its value. I am definitely not all knowing, but in my experience there are so few times that a mistake can occur in these situations that the edge is virtually non existant. I'm sorry but your system seems like theory more than fact to me. We play almost every advantage we can to make a living. I'm pretty sure if this one was viable we would have been using it quite often.

 

[RJT]

Yeh, but to use a more relevant analogy, how many ploppies have you heard expressing the opinion that you need to be 'rain man' to count card shadroch?
I am by no means suggesting that this does work - i just simply don't have the experience in this particular field to make a judgement like that, but what he's describing does sound at least remotly feesable. And does it harm anybody either way to discuss it?

RJT.

 

[shadroch]

Bojack,
For the record-Whats your take on the flat earth theory?

 

[ScottH]

Nice deflection. But it doesn't alter the fact that your so-called way of reading dealer tells from the way they react to the mirror is simply not correct.The methods you describe are hopelessly outdated,and are not applicable to 99% of todays casinos.
And for the record,not one of the BJ experts I referred to thinks the earth is flat.

What about the earth being hollow?

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2295&highlight=hollow+earth

 

[captheathmalc]

No captain I am not nor ever was I a dealer. I am however a professional blackjack player thats been playing with a team since the mid 90's. We even have somewhat of a casino set up we use for practicing, complete with a blackjack table and mirror peeking device. Rechecking of the blackjack is usually due to glare and not because something else was seen. Due to the physical aspect of the cards a sloppy insertion into the peeker makes for even less of a chance to see the underneath card. We play in many states in this country and a few other countries as well, and there is few if any casinos that do not use a 90 degree guide in the peeker device. Therefore it is virtually impossible to push the bottom card up too far thus seeing its value. I am definitely not all knowing, but in my experience there are so few times that a mistake can occur in these situations that the edge is virtually non existant. I'm sorry but your system seems like theory more than fact to me. We play almost every advantage we can to make a living. I'm pretty sure if this one was viable we would have been using it quite often.

Note: I said "either a dealer, or had access to a standard BJ table"...which you confirmed.

 

[captheathmalc]

I wonder if your intention for asking me this question is for informational purposes, or to try and debunk what I have said?

For the answer to your question, you can refer to my last post.

As for what I feel...I feel nothing. I do not compare myself to others...only to myself. I am my standard...not anyone else. You say that "most" people say this is impossible...but think about what you are saying. When you say "most people" I will assume you are referring to "most educated BJ players"....if I am incorrect, then let me know. However, education is just that...knowledge. If you are unaware of something, then naturally you will not believe it. SOoooo... if "most" of the "educated black-jack players" that you know, or have met...are unaware of this, or simpily uninterested in learning it...then wouldn't it stand to reason that they would say that it is impossible?
Didn't these same people insist that the world was flat?

None-the-less.... I am not trying to convince you to change your strategies...nor am I trying to recruit followers. And since this thread seems to be taking a turn toward the belligerant, I will stop discussing what I do.

To be fair, I will answer three more posts, and then I am finished with this thread. Thanx for reading, and I hope you learned enough to investigate this further for yourself.

Good-luck

Heath

Nice deflection. But it doesn't alter the fact that your so-called way of reading dealer tells from the way they react to the mirror is simply not correct.The methods you describe are hopelessly outdated,and are not applicable to 99% of todays casinos.
And for the record,not one of the BJ experts I referred to thinks the earth is flat.

It seems you are quite adept at banter, and fixating on phrases, that you wish to reply to.

When I made the statement, "Didn't these same people insist that the world was flat?"



I was referring to people in the 14th and 15th century, who were considered scholars, who believed the world was flat....but this belief was due to a lack of information.

Also, I didn't deflect your question...simpily didn't see a need to re-type something I'd already said.

In the future, I will try to make my analogies less complex.


And to anyone else who wants to waste their time in a meaningless exchange of words...save it. I have better things to do....as I am sure you do also.

If anyone is interested, you can PM me or e-mail me your questions. I will try to explain the best I can.

To the rest of you: I hope you do well.

-out-

 

[bluewhale]

Hello Captain,

Very interesting posts. But I do have a few comments about your tells. When a dealer is using a mirror peeking device to check for blackjack he can't see anything underneath if there is no blackjack. The way casino cards are set up you will notice that 10 valued cards are only marked on 2 corners but higher up than the other cards. Aces have there symbol in all 4 corners but only higher in 2 of them. When the dealer checks for blackjack with a 10 up they will put the card in the device straight in as they sit on the table. If there is anything other than an ace it will show white only. If there is an ace up they will spin the cards horizontal and put it into the peeker that way. If there is no ten than only white will show. The cards for casinos are designed for these peeking devices to take the human element out of it. All other cards other than 10 value and aces have there corner symbols printed much lower so they do not appear in the peeker window. As I'm sure you have seen there are even some peeking devices that are just push button with a red or green light to tell if there is blackjack or not. I do not refute there are ways to take advantages of weak dealers, especially if they are manually liting cards to check for blackjack. But to say you can catch tells on the peeking devices, without saying you're holecarding is something that is hard to fathom. I wish you continued luck, but I hope your tells reading also consists of other things based on seeing cards or capitilizing on certain shuffles, otherwise I think your info may be flawed.

question for you, is it not possible that cap is playing an advantage game?
i stated why i think he is earlier basically because hes using BS and basic counting... betting high after seeing low cards, this coupled with a double deck game, and a HUGE spread, $25-$2000)
i'm not in anyway saying this is an optimal strategy, just one with a long term positive expectation.

 

[supercoolmancool]

He would have the advantage if the dealer knew wether the hole card was high or low when they checked for blackjack but since the dealer really doesn't know this he probably is not playing with an advantage. His simple counting strategy probably hurts him more that helps him.