"good" Vegas games

[Jack_Black]

Ugh - I am in Las Vegas now and OMG - what has happened here!?

You have to play the higher limit tables to get any kind of a decent game and since I'm still not up to par on counting, I'm not ready for high-limit. I'm almost glad I had to bring work with me so I don't have as much time to play. It's a wasteland out here.

I'll clarify that we're staying at Caesar's and my time limitation is such that I don't have much spare time to spend going downtown (up and down Fremont Street) looking for a better game, or up and down the strip. Every casino I've been in close to Caesar's is playing 8D shoe and 6:5 BJ. O'Shea's no longer plays DD.

Binions/4Queens - paying 6:5 on BJ on all the tables I saw.

Places paying 3:2 BJ are taking it away in other ways - no DAS, no splitting aces, only allowing 2 splits.

Any bets on whether they'll stay greedy even when the economy improves?

I ll wager that they keep the games the same after the economy improves. I really think beatable bj games are going extinct. It follows natural progression. First there were SD games with no cut card, then shoes, then CSMs, and now those damn virtual BJ games with the repeat video of semi attractive dealers on them. "would you care to play?" "would you care to play?" "would you care to play?" "would you care to play?"

When I was there a few weeks ago, bellagio had switched almost everything to CSMs, and most shoe games on the strip I found were 6:5. even downtown, some places cut the shoe in half! these corporate casinos aren't run by dumb people. They know that tourists are stupid and most don't know what pen, 6:5, csms do to the game. Why offer a great game if people are willing to play crap that makes the casino a ton of money?

 

[kewljason]

Ugh - I am in Las Vegas now and OMG - what has happened here!?

You have to play the higher limit tables to get any kind of a decent game and since I'm still not up to par on counting, I'm not ready for high-limit. I'm almost glad I had to bring work with me so I don't have as much time to play. It's a wasteland out here.

I'll clarify that we're staying at Caesar's and my time limitation is such that I don't have much spare time to spend going downtown (up and down Fremont Street) looking for a better game, or up and down the strip. Every casino I've been in close to Caesar's is playing 8D shoe and 6:5 BJ.
Binions/4Queens - paying 6:5 on BJ on all the tables I saw.

Places paying 3:2 BJ are taking it away in other ways - no DAS, no splitting aces, only allowing 2 splits.

Ya gotta get away from those HET properties. Walk 2 blocks south to the Monte Carlo. They have $10, 6 deck game, S17, LS house edge of .26

Usually ceaser and harrahs have both 6-5 and 3-2 low limit games. Check the different pits. They usually put the 6-5 near the entrance and the 3-2 further inside. I forget where, but somewhere in the last month I walked by low limit 6-5 and 3-2 games side by side. Same exact rules and limits otherwise. Guess which had 5 players and which had 1. :laugh:

 

[creeping panther]

Really .26

Ya gotta get away from those HET properties. Walk 2 blocks south to the Monte Carlo. They have $10, 6 deck game, S17, LS house edge of .26

Usually ceaser and harrahs have both 6-5 and 3-2 low limit games. Check the different pits. They usually put the 6-5 near the entrance and the 3-2 further inside. I forget where, but somewhere in the last month I walked by low limit 6-5 and 3-2 games side by side. Same exact rules and limits otherwise. Guess which had 5 players and which had 1. :laugh:

Hmmm....I play a .17 and think no big deal.

CP

 

[creeping panther]

Jack

I ll wager that they keep the games the same after the economy improves. I really think beatable bj games are going extinct. It follows natural progression. First there were SD games with no cut card, then shoes, then CSMs, and now those damn virtual BJ games with the repeat video of semi attractive dealers on them. "would you care to play?" "would you care to play?" "would you care to play?" "would you care to play?"

When I was there a few weeks ago, bellagio had switched almost everything to CSMs, and most shoe games on the strip I found were 6:5. even downtown, some places cut the shoe in half! these corporate casinos aren't run by dumb people. They know that tourists are stupid and most don't know what pen, 6:5, csms do to the game. Why offer a great game if people are willing to play crap that makes the casino a ton of money?

Americans are very stupid people, so they sit down and play these trash games because they are BJ and they think they are beatable,,,,sad thing is some "AP's", think they can too.:laugh:

But,, you and I have our own little slice of Heaven, and it sure ain't Vegas.:grin:


CP

 

[MartyAce]

Americans are very stupid people, so they sit down and play these trash games because they are BJ and they think they are beatable,,,,sad thing is some "AP's", think they can too.:laugh:

But,, you and I have our own little slice of Heaven, and it sure ain't Vegas.:grin:


CP

It's just not fair!

So close, yet so far away.

 

[13Counter]

Binon's single deck game was the best I saw.

Caesar's had the worst single deck (6:5, no DAS, Hit 10 and 11 only) just really crappy rules. I do like their 8D because of pen. but that's about it.

Aria had all CSM, didn't even play there. But alot of tourists were giving their money to finish building Aria...

TI had a good DD game...that's about all I saw...

 

[Jack_Black]

Americans are very stupid people, so they sit down and play these trash games because they are BJ and they think they are beatable,,,,sad thing is some "AP's", think they can too.:laugh:

But,, you and I have our own little slice of Heaven, and it sure ain't Vegas.:grin:


CP

I've been doing a little traveling and it seems like everywhere except vegas is heaven.

 

[Jack_Black]

Binon's single deck game was the best I saw.

Caesar's had the worst single deck (6:5, no DAS, Hit 10 and 11 only) just really crappy rules. I do like their 8D because of pen. but that's about it.

Aria had all CSM, didn't even play there. But alot of tourists were giving their money to finish building Aria...

TI had a good DD game...that's about all I saw...

I disagree, binion's had one 3:2 SD table when I went there. At least el cortez had at least 3 tables of SD, and at least 3 DD tables. TI had a "I'll play this crap, because it's the best of the crap" game. Dealer dealt about 60 cards out of DD.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

Ya gotta get away from those HET properties. Walk 2 blocks south to the Monte Carlo. They have $10, 6 deck game, S17, LS house edge of .26

Is that Monte Carlo info current? I thought they switched to all 8D H17? At least it was like that a couple of trips ago, and I didn't even bother stopping in last time.

 

[johndoe]

Is that Monte Carlo info current? I thought they switched to all 8D H17? At least it was like that a couple of trips ago, and I didn't even bother stopping in last time.

Last time I was there they had a single $25 S17 table. I also had to argue with a dealer over whether surrender was offered or not. (The scrolling sign made it clear, of course..)

 

[chichow]

Hmmm....I play a .17 and think no big deal.

CP

that Monte Carlo game with a .26 edge has a 10 dollar to 5000 dollar table min and max. So not only is it red chip territory, but the min max spread is 1- 500.

So you are playing a .17 game. What is the mix max spread on your game?

Please understand I am not attacking you here, I am just wanting to compare all facets of the game.

 

[kewljason]

that Monte Carlo game with a .26 edge has a 10 dollar to 5000 dollar table min and max. So not only is it red chip territory, but the min max spread is 1- 500.

So you are playing a .17 game. What is the mix max spread on your game?

Please understand I am not attacking you here, I am just wanting to compare all facets of the game.

Yeah, try spreading $10 - $5000! See what that gets ya? :laugh:

 

[chichow]

Lets say you want to make X amount in terms of EV.

You can lower your spread and extend your longevity (like at a home base)
or you can dive bomb and make that same amount in a shorter period of time (I am assuming that Vegas is not home base).

You can also wong in AND since it is Vegas probably also surrender if you end up with a terrible hand at a high count.

And let's say you use 20 or 25 as your base bet and drop down to 10 if the count goes negative. So you can actually then do a 1 - 40 spread and bet 1000 and for ONE shoe and get out and still be far far from table max. You certainly can't do that at a table with a 300 or 500 max bet.

And with a 1 or 1.5 shoe session, that is likely to be too short for you to get yanked. ...just saying...

 

[Jack_Black]

Lets say you want to make X amount in terms of EV.

You can lower your spread and extend your longevity (like at a home base)
or you can dive bomb and make that same amount in a shorter period of time (I am assuming that Vegas is not home base).

You can also wong in AND since it is Vegas probably also surrender if you end up with a terrible hand at a high count.

And let's say you use 20 or 25 as your base bet and drop down to 10 if the count goes negative. So you can actually then do a 1 - 40 spread and bet 1000 and for ONE shoe and get out and still be far far from table max. You certainly can't do that at a table with a 300 or 500 max bet.

And with a 1 or 1.5 shoe session, that is likely to be too short for you to get yanked. ...just saying...

So you think just spreading like that one time wont get you a "CHECK PLAY!" call? Besides, having a bigger spread doesn't correlate in terms of SCORE increase. If you have a sim, try seeing how little the SCORE starts changing once you put in some outrageous spread compared to a typical spread.

 

[creeping panther]

Chow

that Monte Carlo game with a .26 edge has a 10 dollar to 5000 dollar table min and max. So not only is it red chip territory, but the min max spread is 1- 500.

So you are playing a .17 game. What is the mix max spread on your game?

Please understand I am not attacking you here, I am just wanting to compare all facets of the game.

Now that is more like it,,a $10 min and $5000 Max, I will head right over and start spreading from $10 to $5000, HURAH!!!:laugh:

Just for you Chow, $25 to $500, $5 to $300,,,,I know too low a Max for you

CP

 

[chichow]

So you think just spreading like that one time wont get you a "CHECK PLAY!" call? Besides, having a bigger spread doesn't correlate in terms of SCORE increase. If you have a sim, try seeing how little the SCORE starts changing once you put in some outrageous spread compared to a typical spread.

You're probably getting a checks play call anyways at black. So bet a black or two somewhere before in the shoe and there is the checks play call and then later in its not as big a deal when you can go all in with some purple or something underneath your black.

In vegas AND in some midwest casinos, at 5 10 maybe even a 25 tables, there is not going to be a difference in the checks play call. Black is going to be checks play

 

[chichow]

Now that is more like it,,a $10 min and $5000 Max, I will head right over and start spreading from $10 to $5000, HURAH!!!:laugh:

Just for you Chow, $25 to $500, $5 to $300,,,,I know too low a Max for you

CP

my point about the max is that

1. you can get more money down at that 5000 table.
2. there is more likely to be bigger players so even if you throw down a purple its not out of the ordinary
3. At you 300 max table, you can't throw down a purple. And at your 500 max table, instead of checks play call, you are going to get a table max call

and back to my original point. yes one place may be a .17 game and another a .26 game, but other things like table limits and the environment you play in also matter.

 

[chichow]

Now that is more like it,,a $10 min and $5000 Max, I will head right over and start spreading from $10 to $5000, HURAH!!!:laugh:

Just for you Chow, $25 to $500, $5 to $300,,,,I know too low a Max for you

CP

its low to me if there is a 7+ hour drive involved and you make one unit of EV an hour.
At a 10 dollar unit, you're making 20k a year with Variance. I personally think its better to work at Walmart for that amount of money and no variance.

I add in my gas costs, my flight costs, etc. when calculating my return. I compare it to is it better than flipping burgers or doing freelance work. Is that so bad?

 

[Jack_Black]

You're probably getting a checks play call anyways at black. So bet a black or two somewhere before in the shoe and there is the checks play call and then later in its not as big a deal when you can go all in with some purple or something underneath your black.

In vegas AND in some midwest casinos, at 5 10 maybe even a 25 tables, there is not going to be a difference in the checks play call. Black is going to be checks play

No. A "check play" call has more than one use. Yes, it is used to announce big money on the table. "big money" being subjective per each casino's tolerrances. So it can be used to just verify that big money is in play that someone should double check just in case there is a payout or play mistake. But a "check play" call is also used to let the PC know that you are spreading way too much for an average player. "too much" is also subjective per each casino. I've gotten a check play call for going $5 to $50, $5-25, and 5-100.

Also, there really is no point in spreading super crazy like in your example. It doesn't really help your gain or game, and it certainly hurts your game by drawing attention.

 

[chichow]

Just IMHO you're giving waaay to much credit to the dealer.

but that being said, the example that was being compared was Monte Carlo.

Were you getting a checks play @ Monte Carlo? for going $5 to $50, $5-25, and 5-100

Or perhaps was it more sweaty property like 4Q or escortez? just saying...