1357111317
Well-Known Member
In fact when you have a weak shuffle poor pen can often be better. That way you get more shuffles and thus more chances to bet big on that good slug.
H17 8 deck games
- Thread starter blackjackstudent
- Start date
Automatic Monkey
Banned
What difference does it make? I would rather bet $0 in the beginning of a 8D shoe than bet even $10 in the beginning of a 4D or 6D shoe. where there is no advantage.creeping panther said:
If you don't understand that it is better to stand aside a 8D BJ table and watch and not play than to sit down and play any game with a disadvantage, then you are probably playing the game for a different reason than I am. And if you think there is a vast difference between playing a 8D game and a 6D game you need to re-run your sims.
Hey, who knows, maybe just reading what you say and believing it and therefore "knowing" it's playable for a few, as you state, may inspire more new players to figure out why it's not junk and worth their time and money so they become amongst the "few" rather than the "many" lol.creeping panther said:
One either knows what one is doing and what to do in a game with rules and pen and counting and betting so much when and roll etc or one doesn't.
Telling some of these new guys what a great game some SD dealt to 50 cards is, may also be doing them a disservice if they don't know what they are doing in the first place lol.
creeping panther
Banned
Monkey
Another thing, if I am at a shoe game and you are standing there watching and than you jump in when I get a good situation we are going to have problems.
And no, I do not like most 6d games, but that is where I draw the line.
AS I have said, we do a great disservice to newbies by pushing these junk games. Let us tell the truth.
CP
Real simple, I would not play that game, dig? I do not HAVE TO PLAY, dig?Automatic Monkey said:
Another thing, if I am at a shoe game and you are standing there watching and than you jump in when I get a good situation we are going to have problems.
And no, I do not like most 6d games, but that is where I draw the line.
AS I have said, we do a great disservice to newbies by pushing these junk games. Let us tell the truth.
CP
Blue Efficacy
Well-Known Member
I agree with the Panther. I came THIS close to outing some guy who definitely Wonged into my shoe, on the seat to the right of me. He stole my Ace.
I have no problem if people want to wong out. But this backcounting pisses me off. The games are definitely good enough that it is not needed, but these punks still do it. They should know that I am also counting cards, and I will be none too pleased when they put their filthy hands in my cookie jar.
I have no problem if people want to wong out. But this backcounting pisses me off. The games are definitely good enough that it is not needed, but these punks still do it. They should know that I am also counting cards, and I will be none too pleased when they put their filthy hands in my cookie jar.
creeping panther
Banned
Blue
CP
Well said.Blue Efficacy said:
CP
No, you don't have to play. Just like you don't have to provide any sensible defense for you blanket generalizations that all 8D shoes are evil. Though it seems to me that anyone labeling a game "bad" without taking into account some minor things like penetration, game speed, crowding conditions, level of heat, ability to spread with impunity, etc, isn't much of an AP.creeping panther said:
SystemsTrader
Well-Known Member
There is no perfect answer to this, you would like a minimum 2 decks for 75% but once you start getting 1.5 that's pretty decent and if you can get 1 deck or less then its a very good game.Finn Dog said:
Isn't this what SCORE was meant to describe?
S17, DAS, LS, 1-12 spread.
1.5/6D SCORE = 34.73
1.5/8D SCORE = 26.33
1/8D SCORE = 39.77
I can find a 1/8 game pretty easily, with little to no heat spreading 1-20 (or more), or I can spend hundreds of dollars going to Vegas for a lower score, less spread, and more heat. Plus, what about your time's value when traveling to a venue?
I don't see why people are so against the 8D games; in of itself it's just one factor of many, as others have said. Being a good AP means taking it all into account.
S17, DAS, LS, 1-12 spread.
1.5/6D SCORE = 34.73
1.5/8D SCORE = 26.33
1/8D SCORE = 39.77
I can find a 1/8 game pretty easily, with little to no heat spreading 1-20 (or more), or I can spend hundreds of dollars going to Vegas for a lower score, less spread, and more heat. Plus, what about your time's value when traveling to a venue?
I don't see why people are so against the 8D games; in of itself it's just one factor of many, as others have said. Being a good AP means taking it all into account.
your kidding right? please tell me your kidding. Did you know the next card was an ACE? you could not have moved over or taken more spots?Blue Efficacy said:
Do you complain when a ploppy comes in mid shoe when the count is bad and eating up the bad cards?
If you don't want people to jump into a game, then play a non-mid shoe game or play when the conditions are less crowded
creeping panther
Banned
John
A good AP has discipline to say no!! Enough is enough!
CP
When you play 8D you are rewarding a casino for offering TRASH ...why will the casino not offer 6D??????because people will play the 8D and then soon the 10D etc..johndoe said:
A good AP has discipline to say no!! Enough is enough!
CP
creeping panther
Banned
21
CP
I am sure Blue would not have outed the player, but there is no love for Wongers by many AP's, respect Blue for his argument. I agree with Blue, 100%. If I were to Wong that is the one thing that would get me booted faster than anything else, and I would also expect to get a boot up my a** from some other player....eventually.21forme said:
CP
creeping panther
Banned
chichow
I do wong in at times on shoe games, but not when another AP is on the table, very impolite. But I do it very sparingly so as to not get the boot, and then I ask before doing so.
And no AP will complain when a ploppy comes in at a bad time, it gives the perfect excuse to go to the bathroom etc.
CP
Blue has every right to be pissed, just like you have every right to jump in midshoe, and Blue has every right to ask you not to, and to give you heat for doing so. Nobody likes wongers, if you do it be prepared for a problem.chichow said:
I do wong in at times on shoe games, but not when another AP is on the table, very impolite. But I do it very sparingly so as to not get the boot, and then I ask before doing so.
And no AP will complain when a ploppy comes in at a bad time, it gives the perfect excuse to go to the bathroom etc.
CP
creeping panther
Banned
Sabre
I give my action to those casinos that give me a fair chance and do not insult me with 8 deck monsters.
I guess I am not much of an AP, must just be luck that it is a rather rare event for me to lose even a session. And most of those sessions are playall.
Recently when I bought in and gave my players card 3 pit critters gathered around the monitor to examine my playing record because of some notes on my profile, one of them exclaimed, "My God, the guy never loses". Again, I credit that not to superhuman skillz but more to the discipline I have to NOT play junk.
Regards,
CP
When I can play fine DD, 4D, 6d, why on earth would I then get excited over 8d???????????? To feed a Jones???????????sabre said:
I give my action to those casinos that give me a fair chance and do not insult me with 8 deck monsters.
I guess I am not much of an AP, must just be luck that it is a rather rare event for me to lose even a session. And most of those sessions are playall.
Recently when I bought in and gave my players card 3 pit critters gathered around the monitor to examine my playing record because of some notes on my profile, one of them exclaimed, "My God, the guy never loses". Again, I credit that not to superhuman skillz but more to the discipline I have to NOT play junk.
Regards,
CP
My point is that it's not "trash" - the 8D game I listed is better than nearly all common 6D games, and if I don't have to spend $1000 and a day to get there, all the better. I'd take 1/8D over 1.5-1.75/6D anyday.creeping panther said:
What's really trash is the 8D 6:5BJ games I saw in Vegas recently. Now *that* is some nerve. But plenty of idiots were playing it with a perfectly good 3:2 table directly next to it. Amazing.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
How am I rewarding a casino by playing with an advantage at their tables? I am taking from those tables, just like I take from the 6:5 SD games and carnival games in Atlantic City. I reward myself from those tables, not the casino.creeping panther said:
If they start to offer 10D games I will **** the 10D game too, just as if it was the 8D game's mother. A little different technique, ample reward. What's the problem?
No, a good AP takes his advantage where he finds it, be it a flashing dealer, an exploitable promotion, or a deeply-dealt or unprotected BJ game with any rules or decks that allow it to be played with an advantage. Sure, I will play Midwest DD just like you do when I have the opportunity. The difference is that's all you know how to play. I will modify my play to beat any BJ game in my vicinity.creeping panther said:A good AP has discipline to say no!! Enough is enough!
CP
Think of it in warrior terms. The BJ game is your enemy. You have to fight it and defeat it, and you know how to do that. If you meet a different enemy, you may have to fight differently, with different weapons and tactics, but if you can do that it just makes you a better warrior.
SystemsTrader
Well-Known Member
Ok there is a huge difference in perspective on these games so far in this argument from the east coasters and the mid-west players. Before anyone argues again with CP please realize he is just used to playing some of the best games in the country and has access to many different deck games. So you can understand his side of the argument. I wouldn't play 8D H17 75% either if I was him.
Now you mid-west players must understand even if your good games were in the East, with the table minimums of $15, but mostly $25 and up games play-all is next to impossible without a large bankroll. Wonging is your only option. (Other than advance techniques). 8 Deck is pretty much all that's available in the East and to suggest simply not to play the game would mean quitting outright for most. Travelling to better games is not always an option if you have a job and family. The time to drive or cost of flights just isn't worth it for most.
So you just have to decide for yourself if your game is worth your time and make do with what you've got. Not all advantages are the same to different people. If I offered you 2 different games which one would you prefer?
Game 1. is DD H17 DAS RSA 70% High heat
Game 2. is 8D S17 DAS 75% No heat
You can easily make the argument for both sides of these two games.
Now you mid-west players must understand even if your good games were in the East, with the table minimums of $15, but mostly $25 and up games play-all is next to impossible without a large bankroll. Wonging is your only option. (Other than advance techniques). 8 Deck is pretty much all that's available in the East and to suggest simply not to play the game would mean quitting outright for most. Travelling to better games is not always an option if you have a job and family. The time to drive or cost of flights just isn't worth it for most.
So you just have to decide for yourself if your game is worth your time and make do with what you've got. Not all advantages are the same to different people. If I offered you 2 different games which one would you prefer?
Game 1. is DD H17 DAS RSA 70% High heat
Game 2. is 8D S17 DAS 75% No heat
You can easily make the argument for both sides of these two games.
Blue Efficacy
Well-Known Member
I didn't know it was an Ace, but I knew the wonger was diluting my good cards. I understand that people will jump into my hot shoes, and accept that as an unfortunate part of the game.chichow said:
What makes me none too happy is if a backcounter wongs into my shoe. That's a whole different thing.
And no mid shoe entry doesn't exist in my parts.