Hit my first Royal Flush ever!!!

[Thunder]

It was a wonderful experience to say the least. I just wish I had been betting more but oh well.
I had been getting killed playing JOB and was down to my last several dollars. I had JQK and two other junk cards. I saved the JQK and discarded the rest figuring I'd get a pair at best. I had to triple check the screen when I saw the Royal Flush. At first I thought it was only a flush and then when I saw what it really was I was like holy sh-t knowing that there was only a 1-40,000 chance of this happening. I guess I was close to due given that I had never gotten it in any form of poker playing I've done.

 

[creeping panther]

Royal

Congrats on a great win!:celebrate

:grin:

CP

 

[21forme]

Congrats. I'm still waiting for my first one, though I don't play VP much (only when there are comp point multiplier days).

 

[Automatic Monkey]

It was a wonderful experience to say the least. I just wish I had been betting more but oh well.
I had been getting killed playing JOB and was down to my last several dollars. I had JQK and two other junk cards. I saved the JQK and discarded the rest figuring I'd get a pair at best. I had to triple check the screen when I saw the Royal Flush. At first I thought it was only a flush and then when I saw what it really was I was like holy sh-t knowing that there was only a 1-40,000 chance of this happening. I guess I was close to due given that I had never gotten it in any form of poker playing I've done.

That's the way. Most of your RF's will be draws to 3 cards.

But my last 2 RF's were both sacrifices. On one I had to throw away a flush for a 4-card RF draw, and on the other it was a high pair.

 

[Billy C1]

That's the way. Most of your RF's will be draws to 3 cards.

But my last 2 RF's were both sacrifices. On one I had to throw away a flush for a 4-card RF draw, and on the other it was a high pair.

VERY small sacrifices if you were holding 4 to a "royal" both times!!!!!!!!!

BillyC1

 

[peaegg]

It was a wonderful experience to say the least. I just wish I had been betting more but oh well.
I had been getting killed playing JOB and was down to my last several dollars. I had JQK and two other junk cards. I saved the JQK and discarded the rest figuring I'd get a pair at best. I had to triple check the screen when I saw the Royal Flush. At first I thought it was only a flush and then when I saw what it really was I was like holy sh-t knowing that there was only a 1-40,000 chance of this happening. I guess I was close to due given that I had never gotten it in any form of poker playing I've done.

Thunder, congratulations. I found VP is very addictive. It was my first casino game that I played. Looking back, I have spent so much time and money on this game that I wish I didn't. The last RF that I hit was on a $5 machine more than 1 year ago. I have been thinking that my next RF close to due for a long time. Much of my blackjack EV has gone to VP machines. So take my advice, limit or don't play this sucker. after all it is a negative game, unless you can get multiple points offer and you have a good use of the comp points. I will quit playing VP as soon as I hit the next RF. Wish me luck.

 

[Billy C1]

Not always true

Thunder, congratulations. I found VP is very addictive. It was my first casino game that I played. Looking back, I have spent so much time and money on this game that I wish I didn't. The last RF that I hit was on a $5 machine more than 1 year ago. I have been thinking that my next RF close to due for a long time. Much of my blackjack EV has gone to VP machines. So take my advice, limit or don't play this sucker. after all it is a negative game, unless you can get multiple points offer and you have a good use of the comp points. I will quit playing VP as soon as I hit the next RF. Wish me luck.

Not neccessarily a negative game if you are diligent! Many variations are negative but opportunities can be found.
You have to make an effort sometimes!

BillyC1

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Thunder, congratulations. I found VP is very addictive. It was my first casino game that I played. Looking back, I have spent so much time and money on this game that I wish I didn't. The last RF that I hit was on a $5 machine more than 1 year ago. I have been thinking that my next RF close to due for a long time. Much of my blackjack EV has gone to VP machines. So take my advice, limit or don't play this sucker. after all it is a negative game, unless you can get multiple points offer and you have a good use of the comp points. I will quit playing VP as soon as I hit the next RF. Wish me luck.

Advice: being you find it addictive, quit now and take it out on the BJ table. Getting hypnotized by a VP machine is the easiest thing to do, even for a good player and I know excellent players who have done it. Unlike a slot it engages your mind and you control the speed- this is like cocaine for an intelligent person.

The problem is not the -EV as much as the huge variance; you can survive the loss of EV with the comps and points you get if played well, but waiting for that next royal can easily trash your BJ bankroll.

 

[Billy C1]

Advice: being you find it addictive, quit now and take it out on the BJ table. Getting hypnotized by a VP machine is the easiest thing to do, even for a good player and I know excellent players who have done it. Unlike a slot it engages your mind and you control the speed- this is like cocaine for an intelligent person.

The problem is not the -EV as much as the huge variance; you can survive the loss of EV with the comps and points you get if played well, but waiting for that next royal can easily trash your BJ bankroll.

Video poker is really no different than BJ in this respect. Variances can be huge in both games and opportunities can be found in both.
Bottom line is----------play NOTHING but plus games and keep pounding. Do I care if people call me compulsive or addicted when I play with that mindset?
Hell no!!!!!

BillyC1

 

[assume_R]

Do I care if people call me compulsive or addicted when I play with that mindset?
Hell no!!!!!

I think there was a thread a few months ago with somebody asking about "is it really gambling" even though you're playing with a +EV.

So at the risk of being repetitive, it's an interesting thought, and in some sense we're all kind of gambling that we won't hit that RoR, even though we try to minimize it.

Any investment with >0 variance could be considered a gamble, even though it might just be an exercise in semantics, and the term "gambling addiction" or "gambling compulsion" might not always be a bad thing??

::ends rambling::

 

[Billy C1]

I think there was a thread a few months ago with somebody asking about "is it really gambling" even though you're playing with a +EV.

So at the risk of being repetitive, it's an interesting thought, and in some sense we're all kind of gambling that we won't hit that RoR, even though we try to minimize it.

Any investment with >0 variance could be considered a gamble, even though it might just be an exercise in semantics, and the term "gambling addiction" or "gambling compulsion" might not always be a bad thing??

::ends rambling::

Yes, I understand your thoughts. Today I'm "celebrating" the end of my 41st year in the retail and service business. In 41 years there have been some -EV days so I guess a comparison could be made.
The only "true gamble" is a dead even 100% game. Everything on either side of the 100% figure is a business venture. (+ for one side and - for other side)
Gaming is no different than other enterprises really. Many fail because of bad decisions, laziness or simply playing minus games.

BillyC1

 

[RJT]

Oh Christ i have so many issues with what has been posted in this thread.
AM - your advice is good. Most players should stay well away from VP.
Posters above - you are talking about variance and blackjack and VP - have you actually looked at the figures? Right i'm going to use some very generic figures here, but the average online blackjack game has a standard deviation of around 1.07 (per unit wagered) - now i know that's for a flat betting BS player, but look at JoB for a moment - the standard deviation on a reasonable pay table is 4.42 - if you think blackjack will take you for a ride, JoB's likely to wipe the floor with you. And JoB is one of the lower variance games - All Aces has a far lower HA than JoB but a SD of 8.08. Deuces Wild 5.92, Joker Poker 5.99.
I would happily stake money on the posters above not having properly assessed how playing VP with their bankroll will affect their RoR - simply put you need a very large bankroll and a very large tollerance to negative swings if you seriously expect to make money on VP.
As to being "due" a RF and wait for the next RF to quit play - i don't even need to begin explaining what's wrong with that concept.

RJT.

 

[Billy C1]

Oh Christ i have so many issues with what has been posted in this thread.
AM - your advice is good. Most players should stay well away from VP.
Posters above - you are talking about variance and blackjack and VP - have you actually looked at the figures? Right i'm going to use some very generic figures here, but the average online blackjack game has a standard deviation of around 1.07 (per unit wagered) - now i know that's for a flat betting BS player, but look at JoB for a moment - the standard deviation on a reasonable pay table is 4.42 - if you think blackjack will take you for a ride, JoB's likely to wipe the floor with you. And JoB is one of the lower variance games - All Aces has a far lower HA than JoB but a SD of 8.08. Deuces Wild 5.92, Joker Poker 5.99.
I would happily stake money on the posters above not having properly assessed how playing VP with their bankroll will affect their RoR - simply put you need a very large bankroll and a very large tollerance to negative swings if you seriously expect to make money on VP.
As to being "due" a RF and wait for the next RF to quit play - i don't even need to begin explaining what's wrong with that concept.

RJT.

The volatility of some vp games (Loose Deuces is a good example) is very high, no doubt. But you can't compare the variance of online BJ with serious casino AP high stakes BJ action either.
The only difference in playing VP at a 1% adv. and BJ at a 1% adv. is that a bigger BR could be required (same 1% edge). That isn't even necessarily true because you'll seldom play vp for more than $5 a push and if you're going to play AP BJ seriously your bets will be MUCH larger.
You won't make any money on CD's now so bankrolling GOOD vp games is a better choice.

BillyC1

 

[RJT]

The volatility of some vp games (Loose Deuces is a good example) is very high, no doubt. But you can't compare the variance of online BJ with serious casino AP high stakes BJ action either.
The only difference in playing VP at a 1% adv. and BJ at a 1% adv. is that a bigger BR could be required (same 1% edge). That isn't even necessarily true because you'll seldom play vp for more than $5 a push and if you're going to play AP BJ seriously your bets will be MUCH larger.
You won't make any money on CD's now so bankrolling GOOD vp games is a better choice.

BillyC1

Lol - you obviously don't know what serious online high stakes blackjack is - i've seen many occasions that i've been betting up to $2.5k on a single hand. Not so much recently, but that's due to finding better advantages. So your statements about the volatility of online blackjack are those from the perspective of someone who hasn't engaged with much online play.
As to comparing blackjack to VP, i would make an educated guess - as i can't be bothered getting a sim out just now - that playing blackjack at green chip level (counting) is equivalent to JoB VP at $5 a punt. I'm seriously funded and have played more blackjack than the majority of posters here and can comfortably say i've played more VP than all the posters on this board combined (due to automation). I know a good deal about this subject.
I doubt there are that many posters (especially given ken's results poll at the start of this year) that are well bankrolled enough to play at these sort of stakes posting on these boards (at least not at a level of risk tolerance that i would find acceptable) and more importantly, i doubt very much that the posters who are well staked enough have actually examined the effects on variance that their VP play has.
And believe me - the time in between meals is very different between blackjack and VP even if the advantage is the same.
All that said - there are those posting here who have been successful and have made sure they know the exact effects of various plays - but there's a connection there in itself.

RJT.

 

[Billy C1]

Lol - you obviously don't know what serious online high stakes blackjack is - i've seen many occasions that i've been betting up to $3k on a single hand. Not so much recently, but that's due to finding better advantages. So your statements about the volatility of online blackjack are those from the perspective of someone who hasn't engaged with much online play.
As to comparing blackjack to VP, i would make an educated guess - as i can't be bothered getting a sim out just now - that playing blackjack at green chip level (counting) is equivalent to JoB VP at $5 a punt. I'm seriously funded and have played more blackjack than the majority of posters here and can comfortably say i've played more VP than all the posters on this board combined (due to automation). I know a good deal about this subject.
I doubt there are that many posters (especially given ken's results poll at the start of this year) that are well bankrolled enough to play at these sort of stakes posting on these boards (at least not at a level of risk tolerance that i would find acceptable) and more importantly, i doubt very much that the posters who are well staked enough have actually examined the effects on variance that their VP play has.
And believe me - the time in between meals is very different between blackjack and VP even if the advantage is the same.
All that said - there are those posting here who have been successful and have made sure they know the exact effects of various plays - but there's a connection there in itself.

RJT.

So you have more experience at both BJ and VP than all others (possibly all others combined) and may be bankrolled larger than everyone else, too.
I can't argue with that background and firepower!

BillyC1

 

[RJT]

So you have more experience at both BJ and VP than all others (possibly all others combined) and may be bankrolled larger than everyone else, too.
I can't argue with that background and firepower!

BillyC1

Lmao - take it how you will but the number of hands i've played on various VP games in the last year has run in to multiple millions - and i can verify that.
As to blackjack - yeh i've played lots and lots of it - i'm a good counter/tracker, or at least i was a good counter and an alright tracker a few years ago before i built a very large bankroll playing online. So i have experience both online and offline with blackjack and am also well connected with some serious offline players. I'd say i have more experience than most to comment on this subject.
Honest question for you - how many times in your life have you seen swings of $30+k on the negative side and $50+k on the positive side - in a month? I can tell you all about the variance of VP.
Take that stance if you like however - I was actually trying to tone myself back and be nice, but if you want to act like a huffy child have it your way.

RJT.

 

[Sonny]

And believe me - the time in between meals is very different between blackjack and VP even if the advantage is the same.

I really want to highlight this little gem buried deep inside that ego trip. It's a very important concept to unerstand in this case. The "time between meals" plays an important role in the bankroll requirements for these games. Even if you find two games with equal EV and SD, the skewness of VP is more likely to drain your bankroll to the point of no return. Even though the EV and SD are the same, the RoR and bankroll requirements can be diffferent.

As a wise man once wrote, "Variance Isn't Everything."

-Sonny-

 

[RJT]

I really want to highlight this little gem buried deep inside that ego trip. It's a very important concept to unerstand in this case. The "time between meals" plays an important role in the bankroll requirements for these games. Even if you find two games with equal EV and SD, the skewness of VP is more likely to drain your bankroll to the point of no return. Even though the EV and SD are the same, the RoR and bankroll requirements can be diffferent.

As a wise man once wrote, "Variance Isn't Everything."

-Sonny-

lol - Sonny it genuinely wasn't intended as an ego trip although it's not hard to see how it could be interpreted as suchand i'll take the slapping off you accordingly - but i have to say speaking from experience that many card counter seem to consider themselves above bonus whoring and that sort of attitude really gets my goat. The truth of the matter is that the average bonus whores that i know are making far more than the average counters posting here or anywhere else - now i wouldn't use this to say one group is any better than the other, but i would be quick to point to any counter who is disparaging of online AP that their ideas are somewhat warped.
Online AP can be just as high variance as counting at high levels, quite possibly - barring a few very exceptional exceptions - is probably more profitable, and while at the low end doesn't require much skill, to make it more profitable than counting requires a skill set of its own that is just as valid a form of AP. If you want to stick to grinding out simple blackjack bonuses at $1/hand of course its not, but that's far from all there is available online.
I doubt any of the above posters have looked at how their VP play affects their RoR. Anyone care to step forward and prove me wrong on that? If you genuinely have, i applaud your work, but my intended goal with my posts here was to get those who haven't to revise their strategy.
Take what you will from it, i'm not all that fussed.

RJT.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Pile on VP!

The skewness of VP gets even worse if you play different $ denomination games. If you play an equal amount on machines with coin of .25 cents one day, followed by $1 then $5 or even higher machines your long run is dependent on the highest coin in you play. Also, because your time is split between several games it will take longer to show a profit.

If you hit a royal on a .25 cent machine it means little compared to the swings you will face on a $5 machine.

Of course if you play the same coin in but different games this is much less of an issue.

:joker::whip:

 

[Billy C1]

The skewness of VP gets even worse if you play different $ denomination games. If you play an equal amount on machines with coin of .25 cents one day, followed by $1 then $5 or even higher machines your long run is dependent on the highest coin in you play. Also, because your time is split between several games it will take longer to show a profit.

If you hit a royal on a .25 cent machine it means little compared to the swings you will face on a $5 machine.

Of course if you play the same coin in but different games this is much less of an issue.

:joker::whip:

First, if you're going to play AP VP you'll never be on a $5 machine. At least I've never seen one that was over 100% (not even close). You'll almost always be playing quarters @$1.25 a push or dollars @$5 a push.
My only point here is that VP can be played at an advantage if the games are carefully selected. Yes, many times it's a wild ride between "royals" because of the differing volatility of the many vp games out there.
I'm thinking the sims will show a 1% profit if nothing but +1% games are played (over the long run with "perfect play")
Am I wrong?

BillyC1