I usually keep a low profile...

[psyduck]

Although I rarely post here yet proficient using the KO unbalanced count, I'm a daily observer and appreciate your thoughful well written posts.

Your thoughts regarding CP's aggressive behavior at the table are spot on, a true AP in my opinion would not bring attention to himself in such a manner.

Also, CP must either be a monster big SOB or carry weapons into casinos as tough as he presents himself.

Right on!

There is a saying from some martial art master: "the best way to win a fight is to avoid one". Of course one has to defend oneself when there is no choice.

 

[moo321]

Right on!

There is a saying from some martial art master: "the best way to win a fight is to avoid one". Of course one has to defend oneself when there is no choice.

I think CP avoids them by letting people know he's a mean SOB when crossed.

I sure as hell wouldn't fight him.

 

[Bojack1]

KJ,

It is simple to understand, I don't suffer fools, bullys, or those that will dish out disrespect. I don't look for trouble, but I will not run from it, things many may not understand.

As far as not knowing who you may be dealing with,,,the other guy better be wondering that too:devil:

You must admit, the BJ table has a tendency to get very rough at times,,,just part of the thrill.

CP

Alright CP I was going to leave this alone, but I just couldn't. First, I wonder why an experienced AP would ever take what happens at the table personal. It makes no sense to "really" lose it at the table. You may appear to, but your emotions should never make it a real issue.

With this being said, you would probably hate me to the very core if I was playing in your casino, and sorry to say my friend, there would be absolutely nothing you could do about it. I like to think I'm a fair and kind person in reality, but sometimes to play the game it may appear different. I have played call in games for years, and I tell you it very rarely pays to ask to play while jumping in. Because even if they say no, I'm jumping in anyway. Thats even more insulting then not asking. Now I will very rarely offer playing advice, so thats not much of an issue. But there have been more times then I can count, hostile people at the table due to my jumping in with no regard, and the seemingly stupid plays I make. So what. Angry people amuse me, but they in no way influence my mood or play. Now there has never been an instance where someone has thrown down with me at the table, although many have wanted to. I definitely don't look like an easy mark, maybe that has something to do with it, or maybe its because I can be quiet and confident and let emotions die down, or the fact that I don't stick around long. I have on very rare occasions been confronted later on, but that usually works out ok. Usually when angry people confront the person that made them angry at a later time, its not too hard to make them realize they made a mistake. Either way, there has never been a case where I didn't do what I had to do at the table due to someone having it out for me.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I really would never comment on a hand if I'm not on the table. If I'm on the table, I do give advice sometimes to speed the game up. Others disagree, but I'd rather tell a guy to go ahead and split just to keep it moving.

Also, threatening the pit boss was -ev. The only time I'd do this was if I got a hand put on me for an AP play. This guy was trying to protect his high roller. It just made you an unnecessary enemy.

Yes, my philosophy exactly. Give advice when it helps you, when it speeds the game up, or sometimes when asked. Making friends at the table can lead to many +EV scavenger plays.

One of the purposes of backcounting is to be invisible to the casino staff while you are not playing, and talking to someone at the table defeats that purpose. If I'm watching a table for a positive count, I don't want anyone to even notice I'm there. Watching a high roller for the sake of watching him is not a productive use of time.

The reason the pit boss took him away might not have been just to protect the whale either. This guy could have been connected in some way where screwing with him is contraindicated. Gangster, cop, politician, tribal official. (These are all kind of the same thing, but you get what I mean.)

 

[creeping panther]

Bojack

Alright CP I was going to leave this alone, but I just couldn't. First, I wonder why an experienced AP would ever take what happens at the table personal. It makes no sense to "really" lose it at the table. You may appear to, but your emotions should never make it a real issue.

With this being said, you would probably hate me to the very core if I was playing in your casino, and sorry to say my friend, there would be absolutely nothing you could do about it. I like to think I'm a fair and kind person in reality, but sometimes to play the game it may appear different. I have played call in games for years, and I tell you it very rarely pays to ask to play while jumping in. Because even if they say no, I'm jumping in anyway. Thats even more insulting then not asking. Now I will very rarely offer playing advice, so thats not much of an issue. But there have been more times then I can count, hostile people at the table due to my jumping in with no regard, and the seemingly stupid plays I make. So what. Angry people amuse me, but they in no way influence my mood or play. Now there has never been an instance where someone has thrown down with me at the table, although many have wanted to. I definitely don't look like an easy mark, maybe that has something to do with it, or maybe its because I can be quiet and confident and let emotions die down, or the fact that I don't stick around long. I have on very rare occasions been confronted later on, but that usually works out ok. Usually when angry people confront the person that made them angry at a later time, its not too hard to make them realize they made a mistake. Either way, there has never been a case where I didn't do what I had to do at the table due to someone having it out for me.

Bojack,

"Hate", come on now,,,I hate no one, hating is a very evil emotion, and I have no use for evil.

"Hate to the core", not a description of me my good friend.

I have a dislike for some people and their actions, but I have no desire to hurt anyone or cause pain, unless that is your intention towards me. But I will give a tongue lashing if called for. Learned that trick from the Nuns:grin:

I feel that since we all have a Mother and Father, maybe Kids and Grand Kids, that to hurt one is to hurt them all, now who in their right minds would want that on their concience,,,, not I.

The Great Spirit wants us to Love and Respect one another, no room for hate.

CP

 

[kewljason]

Bojack,

"Hate", come on now,,,I hate no one, hating is a very evil emotion, and I have no use for evil.

"Hate to the core", not a description of me my good friend.

I have a dislike for some people and their actions, but I have no desire to hurt anyone or cause pain, unless that is your intention towards me. But I will give a tongue lashing if called for. Learned that trick from the Nuns:grin:

CP

Good for you CP. A good philosophy. But seems to contradict, your desire to "throw down right then and there' that you have mentioned a number:laugh: of times. Hopefully those thoughts were just for effect. Would hate to see you get into a bad situation because of someone's play at the table. And by bad situation, I don't necessarily mean a physical situation that you couldn't handle. There are considerations of the law.

As for the disliking some people, and in the earlier thread you mentioned that you disliked most of the people at the table. How do you form such a strong opinion as to dislike everyone at the table in such a short time, based on blackjack play? Not to pick on you but that seems not only very odd, but very judgemental of you.

My last comment concerns the nuns: You may have no desire to cause pain. Do you think they shared that same desire? :laugh: The stories I hear are that in your day, the nuns used weapons, such as rulers, yardsticks and straps. I think they were trying to cause a little pain. :laugh:

KJ

 

[blackchipjim]

Roughnecks?

I as a rule do not confront or try to act like I'm a force to be reckoned with. The only really tough guys I know or knew are in the grave or jail. This is a game not my house or my rules to follow so it doesn't make sense to go up against people who may be on the edge. These bodies they find of people killed in parking lots for no apparent reason may have just crossed the wrong people. I can take of myself but you are not worth a life sentence or ruining my life to prove how bad I can be?

 

[kewljason]

I as a rule do not confront or try to act like I'm a force to be reckoned with. The only really tough guys I know or knew are in the grave or jail. This is a game not my house or my rules to follow so it doesn't make sense to go up against people who may be on the edge. These bodies they find of people killed in parking lots for no apparent reason may have just crossed the wrong people. I can take of myself but you are not worth a life sentence or ruining my life to prove how bad I can be?

Well said, Jim. Much the point I was trying to make earlier. Risk vs Reward. And you have to include the extreme example of what unstable people who you don't know, are capable of as part of the risk.

 

[zoomie]

staying off the radar

I'm betting we all agree that staying off the radar is a good thing, but I don't think that means we all have to be pussified. How you come off, and whether you will be noticed, depends on many factors, including your tone of voice, dress, body language, age. Cranky words are much less noticeable coming from an older, well dressed guy than a young tough. Table disagreements are normal - changing the flow of the cards and all that - and I wouldn't worry too much about it as long as you are non-threatening.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Hmm looks like I'm the only guy in this thread who gives advice when asked. I will always tell people the proper play (according to BS) if they ask or if they look around the table with a confused look.

Sure maybe the count is +10 and a different indice is called for, but at that point I just say "it's up to you" or "Well the book says..."

Yeah this makes me appear to know what I am doing, but that is already obvious by my play.

I would never tell a person how to play the hand unless they genuinely are seeking advice.

Back to the O.P. -

That story was hilarious man. I know someone stated that telling the PB to "not touch you" was -EV, but I would have done the same thing probably.

 

[creeping panther]

Kj

Good for you CP. A good philosophy. But seems to contradict, your desire to "throw down right then and there' that you have mentioned a number:laugh: of times. Hopefully those thoughts were just for effect. Would hate to see you get into a bad situation because of someone's play at the table. And by bad situation, I don't necessarily mean a physical situation that you couldn't handle. There are considerations of the law.

As for the disliking some people, and in the earlier thread you mentioned that you disliked most of the people at the table. How do you form such a strong opinion as to dislike everyone at the table in such a short time, based on blackjack play? Not to pick on you but that seems not only very odd, but very judgemental of you.

My last comment concerns the nuns: You may have no desire to cause pain. Do you think they shared that same desire? :laugh: The stories I hear are that in your day, the nuns used weapons, such as rulers, yardsticks and straps. I think they were trying to cause a little pain. :laugh:

KJ

Yes, the Nuns were strict with discipline and did use all those things you mentioned plus pressure holds etc.

I believe my quickness to anger when shown disrespect, or if I see another being hurt, stems from my long years with the Nuns, 3 older brothers who kicked my azz with regularity, and a very violent father who never withheld a nasty beating. I have never forgotten those things and swear that they will never occur to me again, thus my table demeanor.

CP

 

[kewljason]

Yes, the Nuns were strict with discipline and did use all those things you mentioned plus pressure holds etc.

I believe my quickness to anger when shown disrespect, or if I see another being hurt, stems from my long years with the Nuns, 3 older brothers who kicked my azz with regularity, and a very violent father who never withheld a nasty beating. I have never forgotten those things and swear that they will never occur to me again, thus my table demeanor.

CP

I personally don't "get" that word disrepect. I would like to have respect, admiration and luv from friends and family. People that I am close to and care about. But I could care less about getting respect or even disrespect from some stranger that means nothing to me. I really could care less what they think. Sometimes even find it amusing.

The hip hop/ganster/gang culture (of couse that's not you...lol, just using an example) has the same view on that respect/disrespect thing. Prisons are full of people who went out and got even with someone who 'disrespected' them. I don't get it. Did that person somehow earn the respect of the person he killed? Did he earn the respect of family and friends that cared about him and now are watching him rot away in prison. Who's respect did he earn? Maybe other's like him, who will soon join his fate. I really just don't understand. Again what difference does it make what strangers think, say, do?

Anyway, I do want to take this opportunity to apoligize to you for even stating my observations. I really didn't set out to judge you. Just sort of responded out load to some of your thoughts. mainly that you are ready to throw down in the casino. :laugh: And inevitably that was in fact judging you and opened the door for others to as well. Sorry about that.

But I must say that even if you have this respect/disrespect thing that means so much to you for some reasons that you mentioned and maybe your heritage as well, , I would think you would check it at the casino door. Such behavior is really not conducive to AP goals and it just surprises me a little from such an experienced, successful AP guy.

 

[Bojack1]

Yes, the Nuns were strict with discipline and did use all those things you mentioned plus pressure holds etc.

I believe my quickness to anger when shown disrespect, or if I see another being hurt, stems from my long years with the Nuns, 3 older brothers who kicked my azz with regularity, and a very violent father who never withheld a nasty beating. I have never forgotten those things and swear that they will never occur to me again, thus my table demeanor.

CP

Ok CP that sounds rough alright. I'm glad you're here today to talk about it. But it sounds as if its therapy you need not arguments at the blackjack table. You are quick to label someone as disrespectful just because they choose to jump into a game at a table you happen to be sitting at without your permission. Thats not being disrespectful at all, especially if the person jumping in is doing so trying to play a smart game. It seems it is you being the bully. You are the one disrespecting somebody else's right to play a public game. Your quickness to anger shows weakness. It may not be your fault based on your upbringing, but when angered by such trivial things, you are just displaying unhealthy behavior.

Now as I said to you before, if I jump into your table against your wishes while your playing, you may not hate me, but you will be angered it seems. If I ignore you as you try to convey your hostility towards me, or even give you a smile, I bet you would be close to blowing a gasket. I would have done absolutely nothing wrong to you, but yet in your mind you feel justified in your anger at the moment. And maybe if I was physically or mentally able to be intimidated by your anger, you would be the bully. But that would not be the case, so I bet you would get even madder. Angry people make poor decisions, throwing down over a game in a casino is one of the poorest.

Foolish pride over respect in a casino is reason to fight? No I don't think so. You can stand up for yourself without attacking. Just behave normally in the face of adversity and you have retained your self respect. Having another control your emotions, and you lose it. Getting arrested or spitting bloody chicklets because you decided to fight someone in a casino over a seat at the table is far from maintaining self respect. I mean no disrespect to you in this post CP, but I certainly think you need to at least rethink your stance, I mean one day it really may be me jumping into your game. You don't really want to punch your old pal Bojack do ya?

 

[blackjackomaha]

CP, perhaps we are seeing how you use some of your MAD SKILLZ? :cool2:

 

[kewljason]

Foolish pride over respect in a casino is reason to fight?

Stand Tall, all you're feeling right now is silly human pride. ---Burton Cummings

 

[creeping panther]

Bojack,

Actually it would be a great learning experience to see you work on the same table I was on, so I would welcome that, and I think I would know you rather quickly if I saw you, and we would have something in common, Cat Hairs...

And yes, I do realize I must control my "Fever" far better at the table, something I will work very hard on.

CP

 

[blackchipjim]

The Nuns!

Hey CP did you say nuns or Huns?, I withstood outright beatings and kickings from the sista's because I was one of the biggest in the class. I ddn't dare show disrespect to them even after I got it in the back of the class. I know if she ratted me out I got worse when I got home. I couldn't imagine that happening in today's schools for fear of major lawsuits and you beat my little brat type of parents that is prevelant in today's society. Anyways I think the nun's and your your family are part of what shapes us into what a person is today.

 

[creeping panther]

Jim

Hey CP did you say nuns or Huns?, I withstood outright beatings and kickings from the sista's because I was one of the biggest in the class. I ddn't dare show disrespect to them even after I got it in the back of the class. I know if she ratted me out I got worse when I got home. I couldn't imagine that happening in today's schools for fear of major lawsuits and you beat my little brat type of parents that is prevelant in today's society. Anyways I think the nun's and your your family are part of what shapes us into what a person is today.

Diggin on that good buddy

CP

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Yes, the Nuns were strict with discipline and did use all those things you mentioned plus pressure holds etc.

I believe my quickness to anger when shown disrespect, or if I see another being hurt, stems from my long years with the Nuns, 3 older brothers who kicked my azz with regularity, and a very violent father who never withheld a nasty beating. I have never forgotten those things and swear that they will never occur to me again, thus my table demeanor.

CP

I understand exactly where you are coming from. And I also would not stand there and watch somebody get hurt if I could prevent it.

But I do not see how you make the connection between being spoken to disrespectfully at the table, and being physically harmed. The idle words of a loudmouth cannot hurt you! In fact when a person resorts to rude words it is usually because they don't have any other tools at their disposal, which means they probably have less ability to harm you than a silent person, no?

When I hear abusive talk at the table that labels the person, to me, as weak and sick, and not worth paying attention to at all, let alone fighting. You know it's true, you know those people are sick gamblers.

Please consider this the next time you are tempted to "throw down": that you are miles above other people in the casino in both intellect and discipline. The most senior executives in the gaming industry probably cannot do what we do. There is no reason to play anyone's games other than the game you chose to come and play.

 

[aslan]

Basic rule: Don't mess with the whales.

Amen. Whales are on the house's protected species list.