Most players are IDIOTS

I doubt if this is hardly news to any of you, but I just had to say this - BTW, this is my first post...

I'll never understand why there are so, so many players that SIMPLY HAVE NO CLUE what "basic strategy" is! And many of them are betting a lot more than the table minimum!

And I'm not talking about decisions that are "borderline" to many players, i.e. hitting or standing with 16 vs. a 10, with 12 vs. a 2 or 3, doubling with 11 vs. a 10 or Ace, etc. I'm referring to brain-dead ploppies who'll stand on 14 vs. a 9...then a few hands later hit 13 vs. a 4 (or split 5's LMAO!!!). And I seriously doubt if they are counting.

A few often-heard comments that drive me up a wall that we all hear...

1) When the dealer has a stiff card, and all the players have a stiff hand...the table genius will say "Someone's gotta take a hit 'for the table'"...grrrrrr...

2) When you hit your 12 vs. a 2 playing 3rd base, catch a 10..."YOU TOOK THE DEALER'S BUST CARD!"...of course if we KNEW what the next card was, we'd all be rich! But try telling those idiots that!

3) You split 4's vs. a 5 or 6 when you can then double...no need to add anything further lol...

I play a lot in Delaware where they only have the Shufflemaster "virtual" games...interestingly enough, although I much prefer "real" BJ, I do fine playing the machines, I constantly "stick and move" from machine to machine, maybe that's why...I'm hrdly getting rich, but I'm ahead 200 or so units for the year, over thousands of hands. Anyway, my point is that although the rules state the 6 deck shoe is shuffled after 2/3rds of the shoe, there is no way of telling exactly when that does take place (if someone DOES know, TELL ME :') )...so I stick to perfect basic strategy. I can honestly say I have not seen EVEN ONE OTHER PLAYER who plays basic strategy to the letter!!! And some of the plays are downright ridiculous, totally absurd (not counting hitting the wrong button).

I can understand the tourist types who'll probably never play the game agin making bad plays -but it just baffles me how many bad players there are that play BJ A LOT! And for a lot of money! WHY DON'T THEY LEARN THE GAME???

Hey, any "inside" info on playing Shufflemaster? Like I said, moving around A LOT sure seems to work for me...and although I do true the game is being dealt honestly, when I bet less, I sure seem to do better...and I am often wary of playing on a table when there is big money being played by another player of players...
 

cardcounter0

Well-Known Member
IDIOTS are everywhere

If you ever get tried of trying to grind a tiny percentage off of those machines, think about this:

Those same idiots, making similar idiot remarks, are in the poker room. They are waiting to give you their money directly, instead of the casino being a middleman (ie-idiots deposit chips into dealers tray, you get some of them back).

No matter how good you get at poker, the casino will not ban you from the poker room.
:joker:
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
Why casinos should lose their paranoia

With the exception of well funded teams, casinos need not be paranoid about cardcounting because the percentage of idiots on the tables is probably 1,000's of times higher than the percentage of counters.

I recently shared a table in a high limit room with a guy betting two hands of between $2,000-$5,000 and doing things like splitting 2,2 vs A. He drops 75,000 in less than an hour.
Should the casino mind that I took in about $5,000 in that time period?
No, the casino should have paid me a commission because the guy was in the area but was waiting for another player to come in because he did not want to play alone.

This kind of player is in every casino, some play better than others but they are all losers who somehow believe that without any math they will come out winners. It is all in the beauty of the game (for the casino that is), every terrible player you witness can tell you about the day where he did win big, where variance or lady luck smiled upon his cards hand after hand. That bit of ignorant luck has kept him coming back, expecting that luck again while giving all of his money to the casino.
As a long time advantage player, I have often been witness to a horrid player on a great run, while perhaps I am getting my butt kicked. You know how things will work out eventually, but at the time you can only wonder why you can not get "his cards"?

Meanwhile, the casino continues to rack in the money
 

bj bob

Well-Known Member
ihate17 said:
With the exception of well funded teams, casinos need not be paranoid about cardcounting because the percentage of idiots on the tables is probably 1,000's of times higher than the percentage of counters.

I recently shared a table in a high limit room with a guy betting two hands of between $2,000-$5,000 and doing things like splitting 2,2 vs A. He drops 75,000 in less than an hour.
Should the casino mind that I took in about $5,000 in that time period?
No, the casino should have paid me a commission because the guy was in the area but was waiting for another player to come in because he did not want to play alone.

This kind of player is in every casino, some play better than others but they are all losers who somehow believe that without any math they will come out winners. It is all in the beauty of the game (for the casino that is), every terrible player you witness can tell you about the day where he did win big, where variance or lady luck smiled upon his cards hand after hand. That bit of ignorant luck has kept him coming back, expecting that luck again while giving all of his money to the casino.
As a long time advantage player, I have often been witness to a horrid player on a great run, while perhaps I am getting my butt kicked. You know how things will work out eventually, but at the time you can only wonder why you can not get "his cards"?

Meanwhile, the casino continues to rack in the money
Amen Bro! My sentiments exactly. I just wrote a thread about that very same observation. The casinos are shooting themselves in the foot with all these paranoid measures. Sure, they need to keep the organized teams out, but the constant procedural restraints i.e. excessive shuffling etc. just retard their table drop. It's just ridiculous.
As far as the "idiot" ploppies are concerned, I would let them get to me also' however; as I have "matured" I now understand that these folks are essential to the survival of the game itself. Some of these "experts" are actually giving away 5% and therefore enhance the overall bottom line of the BJ pits and thus, these pits still remain available to us AP's. Another benefit of such "geniuses" is purely entertainment. I often find myself stopping by a table and simply watching the ploppy action and soon rolling on the floor in laughter either because of their play or the "invaluable" theories and comments emanating from their lips. Priceless!
 

GeorgeD

Well-Known Member
mulehead126 said:
I doubt if this is hardly news to any of you, but I just had to say this - BTW, this is my first post...

I'll never understand why there are so, so many players that SIMPLY HAVE NO CLUE what "basic strategy" is! And many of them are betting a lot more than the table minimum!

And I'm not talking about decisions that are "borderline" to many players, i.e. hitting or standing with 16 vs. a 10, with 12 vs. a 2 or 3, doubling with 11 vs. a 10 or Ace, etc. I'm referring to brain-dead ploppies who'll stand on 14 vs. a 9...then a few hands later hit 13 vs. a 4 (or split 5's LMAO!!!). And I seriously doubt if they are counting.

A few often-heard comments that drive me up a wall that we all hear...

1) When the dealer has a stiff card, and all the players have a stiff hand...the table genius will say "Someone's gotta take a hit 'for the table'"...grrrrrr...

2) When you hit your 12 vs. a 2 playing 3rd base, catch a 10..."YOU TOOK THE DEALER'S BUST CARD!"...of course if we KNEW what the next card was, we'd all be rich! But try telling those idiots that!

3) You split 4's vs. a 5 or 6 when you can then double...no need to add anything further lol...

I play a lot in Delaware where they only have the Shufflemaster "virtual" games...interestingly enough, although I much prefer "real" BJ, I do fine playing the machines, I constantly "stick and move" from machine to machine, maybe that's why...I'm hrdly getting rich, but I'm ahead 200 or so units for the year, over thousands of hands. Anyway, my point is that although the rules state the 6 deck shoe is shuffled after 2/3rds of the shoe, there is no way of telling exactly when that does take place (if someone DOES know, TELL ME :') )...so I stick to perfect basic strategy. I can honestly say I have not seen EVEN ONE OTHER PLAYER who plays basic strategy to the letter!!! And some of the plays are downright ridiculous, totally absurd (not counting hitting the wrong button).

I can understand the tourist types who'll probably never play the game agin making bad plays -but it just baffles me how many bad players there are that play BJ A LOT! And for a lot of money! WHY DON'T THEY LEARN THE GAME???

Hey, any "inside" info on playing Shufflemaster? Like I said, moving around A LOT sure seems to work for me...and although I do true the game is being dealt honestly, when I bet less, I sure seem to do better...and I am often wary of playing on a table when there is big money being played by another player of players...
The majority of players I see play a pretty accurate BS. Maybe you just notice the idiots more or maybe more of them play the shufflemaster.

I do see some idiots and people making those comments, but it's the exception. Most often they seem new players who haven't a clue.

YOU know the idiot will lose in the long run, but how often have you lost 20 or 30 units in an hour playing perfectly? Those days may have gone much better if you didn't hit 12 v 4 or 16 v 10? Probably the idiot had a run of amazing luck playing crazy and varying his bets. Now he thinks it will happen again .... like he's got "the touch".

How many guys come here and insist that their crazy progressions are valid because they had 5 or 6 winning sessions? You know they will crash and burn someday, and they won't be back to say "you guys were right" but they will continue to play their progressions because they win 5 or 6 sessions. Idiot players are no different .... they keep going back and playing the same because SOMETIMES it works. WHen it does, they tell everyone how much they won. When they lost their short they say nothing.
 

Thunder

Well-Known Member
Personally I think anyone who risks their money in a game they don't fully understand how to play is an idiot. I guess that makes 99% of bj players idiots :grin:

If I got paid $1 everytime someone told me I was supposed to stand on a 12 vs a dealer 2 or dealer 3 in a 6 or 8 deck game when the count wasn't positive enough to warrant that, I'd be making a nice bundle.
Here are in my opinion the 5 most common ploppie errors when it comes to basic strategy.

1. Standing on a 12 vs dealer 3
2. Standing on a 12 vs dealer 2
3. Standing on a soft 18 on anything the dealer has.
4. Standing on 15 vs a dealer 10
5. Failing to double down on any soft hands or 9's.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
Thunder said:
Personally I think anyone who risks their money in a game they don't fully understand how to play is an idiot. I guess that makes 99% of bj players idiots :grin:

If I got paid $1 everytime someone told me I was supposed to stand on a 12 vs a dealer 2 or dealer 3 in a 6 or 8 deck game when the count wasn't positive enough to warrant that, I'd be making a nice bundle.
Here are in my opinion the 5 most common ploppie errors when it comes to basic strategy.

1. Standing on a 12 vs dealer 3
2. Standing on a 12 vs dealer 2
3. Standing on a soft 18 on anything the dealer has.
4. Standing on 15 vs a dealer 10
5. Failing to double down on any soft hands or 9's.
The thing is, a lot of these mistakes aren't that costly. It's stuff like no hitting a 13 v 10, or not splitting 8s, or regularly doubling for less, where things get really expensive.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
Try counting the number of cards dealt before the virtual dealer changes. That should be around the 202-210 mark. If so, assume each dealer starts with a fresh shoe.
 

DonR

Well-Known Member
I'm sure that all of us here have seen all kinds of things that ploppies do. Recently, and almost exclusively at $5 tables, which are very tough to find btw, I'm seeing these guys splitting their T's vs a T card (what do they expect to pull, a couple of aces, I guess, lol), or staying on soft 5 or 6, just because "the dealer is going to bust, and they don't want to take his/her bust card". That's why I hate $5 tables, but with my bankroll, I can't go much higher. $10 or $15 tables still seem to be considerably better, with regards to these morons staying away from them.
 

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
If it weren't for really bad players, there would be no money for APs to win. We should thank them. :joker:

good luck
 

misterac

Member
re: virtual machines

Keep in mind that the virtual blackjack games are only glorified slot machines.If the random number generator has determined you'll win you will.
I have played hundreds of hours at Delaware Park and recently Harrisburg,PA
and while idon't consider myself am expert I do have a ton of anedotal info.

Unlike the poster when I play I don't jump from machine to machine. I have learned that if I stick with one machine I have better luck, luck being the key word.


IMHO these games are a fun way to pass the time and practice BS, and if you can't get to AC offer a nice diversion.
 

GeorgeD

Well-Known Member
misterac said:
Keep in mind that the virtual blackjack games are only glorified slot machines.If the random number generator has determined you'll win you will.
I have played hundreds of hours at Delaware Park and recently Harrisburg,PA
and while idon't consider myself am expert I do have a ton of anedotal info.

Unlike the poster when I play I don't jump from machine to machine. I have learned that if I stick with one machine I have better luck, luck being the key word.

IMHO these games are a fun way to pass the time and practice BS, and if you can't get to AC offer a nice diversion.
I thought the virtual games like shufflemaster that show a virtual dealer are dealing from virtual decks with occasional shuffles. The problem for counting being you don't know when it shuffles.
 

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
misterac said:
Keep in mind that the virtual blackjack games are only glorified slot machines.If the random number generator has determined you'll win you will.
I have played hundreds of hours at Delaware Park and recently Harrisburg,PA
and while idon't consider myself am expert I do have a ton of anedotal info.
Penn National is my "home track" where I do the majority of my horse race handicapping...I've seen those machines there. Never played them, but I think you're right. It all depends what state you're in, but in PA they are definitely random and the next guy's hand has nothing to do with yours.

good luck
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
ChefJJ said:
If it weren't for really bad players, there would be no money for APs to win. We should thank them. :joker:
Yes, keep in mind that the typical percentage that the house wins is well above what BS would give - I've heard figures of 2%-5% as a hold. Of course, this is a combination of (a) the house edge (0.5%), (b) bad play, and (c) variance busting people.

As a matter of fact, given enough really bad players at the tables, the casino might even care less about small-time card counting than it does now.
 

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
prespective on idiots

In theory I agree with the statement you made on ordinary players. They do try the souls of aps around the world everyday even as I type this thread. There is someone somewhere in some casino right now splitting fives against a face card. The statistics show it's inevitable that the vast majority of players are clueless on the whys and wherefores of the strategy and how it was derived. It takes the patience of a saint to sit at some tables with a group of players that are idiots. I have seen dealers deal in utter disbelief to players that have IQs somewhere around thier shoe size. The dealers sometimes wonder if they died and went to dealers hell. blackchipjim
 

ccl

Well-Known Member
these video machines are made by different manufacturers it seems. There is one in lake charles, la that you can tell when the machine shuffles since it changes the dealer on the video screen, with 5 players its every 5-10 mins or so depending on time taking to bet. These are royal match machines too and have the side bet on them

chris
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
blackchipjim said:
There is someone somewhere in some casino right now splitting fives against a face card.
Maybe they're playing a Ten-Six counting system. You split 5's vs. dealer 10 when the true count hits +11 or greater.

HA! :grin:
 

Thunder

Well-Known Member
Next time you see some idiot doing something stupid like splitting 5's against a 10, ask them if you can bet them that they will come out a loser on that hand. Same goes for when someone wants to take even money on their blackjack. Offer to give them 2-1 odds that the dealer doesn't have bj :) This is assuming of course the count is in your favor.
 

Beefcake

Member
Last night alone...

Heard/saw the following, all from different players, all within an hour or so:

"You never split 9's. That's just being greedy."

"Eighteen is a winning hand." (Said each time when I doubled A7 v. 5).

"Did he just hit that soft 18?" [Against dealer 10]

"I'll let the table vote and decide for me: should I split these 5's or double down?"

"Don't split those 4's [against dealer 6], because you don't want to take too many 10's away from the dealer. Just double it." [At a neutral/neg count.]

"Surrender is for suckers," followed closely by "You were supposed to take a hit and save the table." [Never mind that the hit would have busted me.]

and my all time favorite...

"You'll take the dealer's bust card."

For some reason none of these things bothered me or seemed the slightest bit odd before I started playing serious BS and counting.
 

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
good camo

Mr.Mulehead idiots are one of the best camos available to an ap as far as I'm concerned. It can try a person's soul to say the least and best not to stay too too long unless your kicking butt. I have sat tables that mimic the tables they have to teach people in the morinings in las vegas. The only difference was the people learning would make honest mistakes the others were from one flew over the cookoo's nest type. I've sat at tables sooo stupid the dealers quit talking or giving advice to the dummies. blackchipjim
 
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