quiting playing Video Poker

[sagefr0g]

slowly bleeding but not to death

addicts can't do anything if they are addicted to it i guess, errhh and isn't that one of the behaviors associated with addiction? like, say food, eat, eat and eat some more, then fast, fast and fast some more until the blowup comes and the eat cycle starts, sorta thing. from extreme to extreme, sorta thing, can be a indicator, no? an old saying, 'fell off the wagon, again'.

so many things, so many things, lol. we need water, but too much of it and we drown. food, need that as well, too much, it's a problem. on and on...

just me maybe, black swan like opportunities exist in casinos as well as the world outside casino walls. nice juicy black swans not just the scary ones.
vp has aspects that might relate to at least mini black swans, both types, unfortunately. thing is, if one can control the addicting nature of the play, one needn't end up bleeding to death of it.
especially this can be true if one balances one's overall EV and the nature of vp's EV, sorta thing.
just me maybe, seems it boils down to how much bleeding one can withstand and if one can manage the psychology of that bleeding, sorta thing.
excerpt from Taleb's The Black Swan:

 

[Billy C1]

Perspective?

You can be addicted to either + EV games or - EV games. My point is that if I'm consistently playing only + EV games I'm not feeling guilty about the so called addiction and make no apology for it-----------------it's a second job.

BillyC1

 

[peaegg]

Run like the wind ...never look back... i fear it is to late for you though if you are asking for advice.....
More than likely you will have to have a healthy loss before you really try to quit....

Machinist

I had my shares of healthy losses, before, during and after my royals. I am still way up in the plus on VP this year, thanks to the royals. But because of previous listed reasons, I decide to quit. Today I was in a casino but didn't go even near a VP machine. It feels good. But it was easy to do because I was 90 unit up at a blackjack table. My addiction will be tested on those days that I don't do well on BJ table.

Thanks for your advice. Your personal story confirmed that I made a right decision.

 

[Machinist]

I had my shares of healthy losses, before, during and after my royals. I am still way up in the plus on VP this year, thanks to the royals. But because of previous listed reasons, I decide to quit. Today I was in a casino but didn't go even near a VP machine. It feels good. But it was easy to do because I was 90 unit up at a blackjack table. My addiction will be test on those days that I don't do well on BJ table.

Thanks for your advice. Your personal story confirmed that I made a right decision.

Peaegg,
Good for you.....!!!! Being a great "SUCCESSFUL AP requires a HUGE amount of self control!!!!! There are so many dark things that can and will pull you over to its side in a casino... The list is endless...... Sadly i know of only a handful of successful rocksolid APs....
Most of the APs i have met over the years have a race and sports book addiction....
There are good VP "plays" out there , dont get me wrong about this. But the edge needs to be large to make it worth while , time wise verses bj or other lucrative stuff.
I have always hated that twisted gut feeling when i am going after a nice progressive no matter how big it is....because of knowing the potential fluxuation one can run into...

Hang in there

Machinist

 

[darco77]

So what is it that makes VP more addictive in your guys minds? The speed of the play?

I play a little bit of +EV VP in Reno maybe five or six times a year, and yes, I occasionally have felt the pull. The majority of my VP "play" comes via the WinPoker app on my iPhone, which I use to practice BS three or four times per week. I hate to admit it, but I've felt the pull playing the practice game also.

When I was in college, my favorite physics prof used to talk **** about my generation (I'm mid 30s, and this was in the mid 90s) regarding our "Eight Second Attention Span." He blamed it on MTV, and he was probably right. This was decades before Twitter and "reality" TV, where you're lucky to get 2 full seconds of footage before they switch to a different camera with a different angle. The viewer's mind is geared to quick action. I believe this compulsion contributes to the popularity of VP and slots, by both APs and ploppies alike. As cliche as the term "instant gratification" is, it's also true.

So to answer your question, yes, the speed of the play. I don't believe this is the root of the problem, though.

 

[darco77]

That, plus you are using your brain. An intelligent person craves mental stimulation (crossword puzzles, chess, video gaming of all kinds) and when you are locked in playing 1000 hands per hour on a VP game it is like being on a flight simulator. No ploppies keeping you down on the ground. Thus it's very easy, when you are giving them play to keep the free-play coming, to turn your 5-10% advantage with the coupons into something else because you forget to take yourself out of the "cockpit."

Fully agree. If I didn't want mental stimulation, I'd go to the strip club (although many of my single brethren employ another type of AP at these spots, god bless them). When in the environment, I hate doing something completely mindless (unless boobs/booze are involved), hence I turn to VP. It's mentally challenging, +EV, and (drumroll please) lacks the heat found in the BJ pit.

 

[darco77]

Isn't addiction going to help a game with +EV? Since you never get bored playing it, you may as well earn more money spending more time on those +EV VP machines.

My next thought exactly. While full blown addictions, even to things that are good for you, are not healthy, a nice premonition toward such activities should result in some decent cashflow.

In reality, addiction can only be a detriment, but you already knew that. Go outside and watch the butterflies once in a while, ya know?!?

 

[darco77]

I had my shares of healthy losses, before, during and after my royals. I am still way up in the plus on VP this year, thanks to the royals. But because of previous listed reasons, I decide to quit. Today I was in a casino but didn't go even near a VP machine. It feels good. But it was easy to do because I was 90 unit up at a blackjack table. My addiction will be test on those days that I don't do well on BJ table.

Thanks for your advice. Your personal story confirmed that I made a right decision.

Stay strong peaegg. Remember that you possess a skill set that 99% of the people do not. Remember the violent swings that come with this game. Remember as you walk through a shop, that it was not designed for you or I. But it's our jobs to pick our spots, and take our winnings.

 

[blackchipjim]

vp play

I just got back from vegas where my variance went south for the five days. Every casino and everytime I played I got my head handed to me. Unbelievable yes but guess what? playing a few rounds of vp here and there and hitting a royal help both my br and my ego. I don't feel being muti-faceted in gaming is a bad thing. Our maindstay is bj but when you need a break or cover it is has the least HE next to a good bj game.

 

[kewljason]

Our maindstay is bj but when you need a break or cover it is has the least HE next to a good bj game.

Wow, Not sure I agree with this one, BCJim. I can see playing VP if it is a rare positive EV game, or a progression situation, that makes it such. I can see playing a slightly negative EV if the cashback and comps push the longterm value positive. I can even see playing a preset amount of negative EV for cover purposes, calculating the expected loss vs the reward of cover. But the moment you start talking about playing because you need a break from blackjack or just to kill time, I think you have crossed back over the line from AP to gambler. If I need a break from BJ because the cards aren't going my way, I will take a walk or grab some lunch or go back home or to my room if out of town and take a nap or a swim.

 

[21forme]

If I need a break from BJ because the cards aren't going my way, I will take a walk or grab some lunch or go back home or to my room if out of town and take a nap or a swim.

KJ - you are wise beyond your years.

 

[blackchipjim]

Vp play

I suppose hard core counters will scoff at the idea of doing anything else but playing bj to which I fully I agree with. Bear in mind that not everyone can hop from store to store since the density of stores is not conducive to such action. Ideally I would have to save up and travel to areas that harbor more stores and only go there a couple times a year. That isn't going to happen, I enjoy playing more often on my days off and slamming two or three area stores that often will get me barred. It's bad enough that some of the dealers know me by my first name which is asking for trouble but heck I like to play often. Playing video poker for me provides good cover and good profit at times. Believe it or not there is expert play in video poker and it yeilds a profit. It's not for everyone and it's definitly not for pro counters or hard core aps because it takes time away from bj.

 

[kewljason]

KJ - you are wise beyond your years.

Not hardly, 21. I just can't afford, nor have any desire to 'gamble'. :laugh: I work too hard for the small edge that I have to give any back.

 

[Billy C1]

Wow, Not sure I agree with this one, BCJim. I can see playing VP if it is a rare positive EV game, or a progression situation, that makes it such. I can see playing a slightly negative EV if the cashback and comps push the longterm value positive. I can even see playing a preset amount of negative EV for cover purposes, calculating the expected loss vs the reward of cover. But the moment you start talking about playing because you need a break from blackjack or just to kill time, I think you have crossed back over the line from AP to gambler. If I need a break from BJ because the cards aren't going my way, I will take a walk or grab some lunch or go back home or to my room if out of town and take a nap or a swim.

Your discipline is admirable but you AREN"T crossing that line if (AND ONLY IF) you are playing +EV games.
Granted the edge isn't what can be found in BJ at times but "plus is plus".

BillyC1

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I suppose hard core counters will scoff at the idea of doing anything else but playing bj to which I fully I agree with. Bear in mind that not everyone can hop from store to store since the density of stores is not conducive to such action. Ideally I would have to save up and travel to areas that harbor more stores and only go there a couple times a year. That isn't going to happen, I enjoy playing more often on my days off and slamming two or three area stores that often will get me barred. It's bad enough that some of the dealers know me by my first name which is asking for trouble but heck I like to play often. Playing video poker for me provides good cover and good profit at times. Believe it or not there is expert play in video poker and it yeilds a profit. It's not for everyone and it's definitly not for pro counters or hard core aps because it takes time away from bj.

I don't agree that VP is not for solid AP's. It is part of the AP skill set and all of us should at least know how to play it, not only for comps and cover but to exploit promotions, play coupons, etc. All I'm saying is that the risk of being hypnotized by pushing those buttons can get to the best of us and we need to watch out for it.

Probably the biggest value I get from it is getting HET Diamond status. HET BJ being what it is I can't get enough table play alone in to get there but they usually have some full-pay VP available, play it at the right time and it will be neutral or +EV, and getting LFB in just about any US casino venue (and vacation venues like San Diego and New Orleans) is worth it without question.

 

[tensplitter]

Worst comes to worst, at least Harrah's AC blackjack is beatable, and the ROR is low if you wong out at all counts <-1. It's not hard to get hours of rated $15 play doing that.

The Flamingo, where I stayed, had a decent 3:2 double deck game at $25. H17, DA2. I had a table to myself for hours and got no heat spreading $25 to $100. In fact the pit boss seemed to feel sorry for me "losing" $450 of my $600 buy-in (I ratholed a few green chips an hour.) I managed to end up 2 units on that game. I did time a bathroom break to coincide with a -7 count.

 

[Billy C1]

Please answer

Video poker should be approached just like BJ--------play +EV games ONLY--------it's that simple--- now, you can (probably correctly) call me a vp addict, but is that a bad thing if I only play plus EV?????
That's my question.

BillyC1

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Video poker should be approached just like BJ--------play +EV games ONLY--------it's that simple--- now, you can (probably correctly) call me a vp addict, but is that a bad thing if I only play plus EV?????
That's my question.

BillyC1

Yes, it is bad if you are an addict to VP. An addict, by definition, is controlled by whatever it is he's addicted to rather than the other way around, and if you are truly an addict, your ability to discern what is +EV will be perverted as well as your ability to restrain yourself should the EV change. You may not be an actual addict, just a very dedicated player.

Another mark of the addict is the willingness to endure harm in indirect ways in order to pursue his addiction. A drug addict will use dirty needles, an alcoholic will drink rubbing alcohol, etc. Have you ever fouled yourself at a machine, stolen a BR, or otherwise put yourself in non-aleatory risk to play VP?

 

[blackchipjim]

prespective?

There are alot of people who make a living playing vp some of which have written books on how to play to an advantage. I agree variance can kill you and that is a fact. I don't advocate anyone playing to a point of addiction on any game including bj. We have had a few fellow posters that have quit bj because it is ruining their lives. No game is worth ruining your life and that is what this thread was really all about. Anyone who is obsessed with a anything to a point of complusion is heading down a bad road that includes bj.

 

[Billy C1]

Yes, it is bad if you are an addict to VP. An addict, by definition, is controlled by whatever it is he's addicted to rather than the other way around, and if you are truly an addict, your ability to discern what is +EV will be perverted as well as your ability to restrain yourself should the EV change. You may not be an actual addict, just a very dedicated player.

Another mark of the addict is the willingness to endure harm in indirect ways in order to pursue his addiction. A drug addict will use dirty needles, an alcoholic will drink rubbing alcohol, etc. Have you ever fouled yourself at a machine, stolen a BR, or otherwise put yourself in non-aleatory risk to play VP?

Please note that I made it clear that I was ONLY playing +EV. Anyone that perceives themself as an AP must have that discipline.
You make a good point about the difference between addict and dedicated player. I think I'll call myself the latter---------------------it sounds better!

BillyC1