Splitting Tens and getting an Ace
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jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
This chart assumes, Bkackjacks pay even money, and is an automatic winner, so its fair to say, that it becomes better ev to double S21, opposed to standing at around +12 with hi-lozengrifter said:
k_c 7 day free trial here>http://www.bjstrat.net/tdca_info_download.html
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UnevenSeven
Active Member
Ha ha! Yeah, cut the BS - that's not Basic Strategy, BTW - does anyone know the index?zengrifter said:
I use the Revere 14-count. In order for it to be correct to double on A-10 (non-BJ), the count has to be +11 or higher. I'm not sure how this number translates to other counting systems; you'd have to guess-timate this on your own.daddybo said:
However, IF the count was +11 and if my bet were $100, I would be gaining exactly 4 cents on my hundred dollar bet. Anyone who is considering doubling down in this situation is going to have to ask himself "Is the extra variation worth 4 cents to me?". If the answer is yes, then GO for it!
In the extremely rare case that the house pays 3:2 for a 2-card 21 after splitting; you'd have to be better than a 3:1 favorite in order for it to be correct to double, so the count would have to be a whopping +37!
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London Colin
Well-Known Member
I think you may have misunderstood exactly which part of your posts is causing the most consternation. The notion that when the count indicates a gain in EV we might still prefer not to double (either due to risk aversion or to avoid possible heat) I don't think is too controversial.daddybo said:
But this ....
Surely you can see that that is totally nonsensical?daddybo said:
The index for 11 is absolutely unrelated to anything that's been discussed in this thread. The index for 11 represents the choice of -
Double on 11 vs. Hit on 11.
What we are looking for is the choice of -
Double on 11 vs. Stand on 21.
You've acknowledged this in much of what you've said, so I really don't understand what you had in mind when you made the above statement.
daddybo
Well-Known Member
I see it as being no more nonsensical than doubling a soft 21. I know what the OP meant. A decision on whether or not to Double a soft 21.
But if you have decided to do anything but stand, then you have thrown away the +EV of the 21. You are now playing an 11 vs 5. If it's not 21 then it's 11. My point was you shouldn't go there. I don't see why that's so hard to understand.
Gee, I think I need to go visit Kewljason.
But if you have decided to do anything but stand, then you have thrown away the +EV of the 21. You are now playing an 11 vs 5. If it's not 21 then it's 11. My point was you shouldn't go there. I don't see why that's so hard to understand.
Gee, I think I need to go visit Kewljason.
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London Colin
Well-Known Member
But you haven't decided yet, that's the whole point. The question was how high does the count has to be to make doubling the right decision. And the answer has nothing to do with the index for hard 11, any more than doubling soft 18 would involve the hard 8 index. Because the alternative to doubling is to stand.daddybo said:
I think you can safely assume that we all understand that, and may in fact agree with you. That's got nothing whatever to do with what I highlighted from your post. [If Sucker is right, and your words were in fact sarcastic, and not meant to be taken literally, then I wish you had made that a little more clear! Either way, I give up. This is clearly going nowhere.]daddybo said:
London Colin
Well-Known Member
No they don't.sabre said:
Passing Up the Bigger Point
Doubling an A/10 after splitting 10's??? A much more relavent point is re-splitting the 10's when you catch another 10! I usually won't split 10's unless the count is high enough to re-split and then re-split again if I catch two more 10's. When the count is high enough, your chance of ending up with four hands is roughly 40%, since you only need two of the next four cards to be a 10 with at least one of them coming on the first two hits.
So if you're four decks into a six deck shoe and the TC is +6 after the initial hands are dealt, you're there!
Doubling an A/10 after splitting 10's??? A much more relavent point is re-splitting the 10's when you catch another 10! I usually won't split 10's unless the count is high enough to re-split and then re-split again if I catch two more 10's. When the count is high enough, your chance of ending up with four hands is roughly 40%, since you only need two of the next four cards to be a 10 with at least one of them coming on the first two hits.
So if you're four decks into a six deck shoe and the TC is +6 after the initial hands are dealt, you're there!
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jj, I can see that the rules for your image were set to blackjack pays 1 to 1 so it is showing EVs for a player hand of A-T v 5 given player automatically wins due to BJ and is paid even money. That's not right because a split hand of A-T is not an automatic winner.jack said:
In order to display the EVs for split hand(s) manually -
0) Set rules to DAS to display EV when doubling after splitting is allowed
1) Input the original hand (e.g. T-T v 5)
2) In the Strategy/Game section the 'P' button will be enabled; click 'P' or press p on keyboard to split
3) Hand 1 of the split is displayed
4) Deal cards to hand 1; in this case the interest is in if an ace is drawn
5) Click 'Calc' to display EVs for hand 1 given all info known at that point
6) After 1 or more cards are dealt to hand 1, an 'S' button is enabled in Strategy/Game section
7) Click 'S' or press 's' on keyboard to stand on hand 1 and move to hand 2
8) Deal cards to hand 2 as desired; click 'Calc' any time 2 or more cards are in a hand for that hand's EV given all info known
9) There are radio buttons in 'Player' section when a hand has been split; when 0 is selected the original hand is displayed; whan 1 is selected hand 1 is displayed; when 2 is selected hand 2 is displayed
10) If more splits are allowed more radio buttons will appear if a resplit is chosen; (the 'P' button will be enabled if another pair card is dealt and 1 or more splits allowed remain)
11) To move to forward from original hand 'space bar' can be pressed
12) To move backward toward original hand 'shift' can be pressed
13) Split hands can be edited and recalculated at any point if they have a min of 2 cards
14) To remove all split hands from player and restore player to "empty" click the 'R' button in the player section
15) Keyboard shortcuts generally work the same in game mode but you can't edit the contents of player's cards since that is determined randomly
I tried explaining this in the Help file. It's not that easy to explain but it's really not hard once you know it.
The image I have attached matches your composition except I started by inputting T-T v 5, splitting by clicking 'P', dealing an ace to the first split hand, and clicking 'Calc'. Second hand is still pending and can be accessed by clicking 'S'.
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creeping panther
Banned
Now D-BO
I have actually done this using lowly HI-LO-LO on a DD that was dbl 10-11, no das, and pulled a 21,,,both times:laugh:
CP
Dear BJ Master,daddybo said:
I have actually done this using lowly HI-LO-LO on a DD that was dbl 10-11, no das, and pulled a 21,,,both times:laugh:
CP
winr_winr_chicken_dinner!
Well-Known Member
Can't say I haven't done this - can say it's not too smart and it makes for a good time to leave a store... Any dealer pretty much has to call floor on the play, just so there is no margin for error, this will bring you a pretty quick skills test if you hang around...
daddybo
Well-Known Member
You are braver than I... Honestly, I've done it too.. but then I quit wearing my counters do it by the numbers t-shirt. :laugh:creeping panther said:Dear BJ Master,
I have actually done this using lowly HI-LO-LO on a DD that was dbl 10-11, no das, and pulled a 21,,,both times:laugh:
CP