The cost of living in Las Vegas as a tourist

[JohnCrover]

This is why I get SO frustrated with these forums. People read what they want to read, or intentionally twist things. Where the F*** did I say you only need 10k to try to play blackjack supporting yourself?

I simply relayed the circumstance of my younger brother's first year playing red chip level to gain some experience. BUT he was NOT supporting himself at that point. I was supporting him. He lived rent free. Hell he was on my car insurance at that time (he still is, but now he pays his own portion).

To try to support yourself from blackjack card counting play, which I am not recommending....never have....never will....hell I even tried to talk my brother out of it....but if you are going to try to do so, you need to play at least green chip to black level. And to do that, you probably need 25k minimum. That would allow for spreading green to light black safely (with a reasonable RoR).

BUT, and this is a big BUT, that would be if you are living at home or somehow otherwise have very minimal expenses. If you are intending to immediately be taking money from BR to support yourself, I would double that to 50K bankroll needed! Maybe you can get by with 40K, if you are willing to live very frugally. Basically, you need to have enough money to live for a year, if you hit one of those elongated periods where you don't make any money for that year.

So what you're trying to say is that I need 10k to make a good living at blackjack and 25k if I want to live luxurious 50k if I want to live like a king so 'm assuming at those levels that if I go with 2 thousand if I live "frugally." Thanks for the advice KewlJ, I booked my one way ticket to vegas on your recommendation.

 

[LV Bear]

So what you're trying to say is that I need 10k to make a good living at blackjack and 25k if I want to live luxurious 50k if I want to live like a king so 'm assuming at those levels that if I go with 2 thousand if I live "frugally." Thanks for the advice KewlJ, I booked my one way ticket to vegas on your recommendation.

That's not at all what KewlJ wrote. 2K is not even a bankroll; 10K will not allow you to make a "good living." Please reconsider your course of action.

 

[JohnCrover]

You're right, I miss interpreted his post

 

[KewlJ]

That's not at all what KewlJ wrote. 2K is not even a bankroll; 10K will not allow you to make a "good living." Please reconsider your course of action.

Thanks Bear. I assumed he was being funny (or trying to), so I didn't respond. If people are misinterpreting what I say in such a manner....maybe the problem is me. I KNOW communicating my thoughts is NOT my strong point. I will have to try to work on that.

 

[JohnCrover]

Believe me...been there done that, don't want to go back. If I ever go to Vegas I'm going to do it right. Ever been so tired you see things? Yah....not fun...LITERALLY saw a homeless guy sitting outside, looked like he had been beaten relentlessly. I double checked my eyes looked away looked back and he was still there. Was leaving the building to, had to walk around him and when I open the door he was gone. LOL Only regret is not hitting Fremont before I left.

 

[Stevel96a1]

This is why I get SO frustrated with these forums. People read what they want to read, or intentionally twist things. Where the F*** did I say you only need 10k to try to play blackjack supporting yourself?

you never said that, i have the right the option and the ability to infer what you said and others say for me to read i did twist your sentences around to make them my own but it does show how one individual can make do with one bankroll and another with much much less, i am not sure why that made you upset and i am sorry its still true tho, one random course can lead me to problems with 10kroll and another with a 58k roll and very much agreed, you dont have a right to count cards without the min of 10k...

 

[JohnCrover]

This is why I get SO frustrated with these forums. People read what they want to read, or intentionally twist things. Where the F*** did I say you only need 10k to try to play blackjack supporting yourself?

you never said that, i have the right the option and the ability to infer what you said and others say for me to read i did twist your sentences around to make them my own but it does show how one individual can make do with one bankroll and another with much much less, i am not sure why that made you upset and i am sorry its still true tho, one random course can lead me to problems with 10kroll and another with a 58k roll and very much agreed, you dont have a right to count cards without the min of 10k...

Well, now we're just getting in to opinions.

 

[Stevel96a1]

dude i have read so many posts on this site dating back to the first existence of this site and its not even funny i like to think that was me who count the cards and lost (or maybe they were my mentor)
i have no doubt in my mind people who lost tons of cash were on point and played strong games and still came out the sh*t tunnel with a bad taste, counters with strong counts more adv than the hi-lo and judging by the new comer Zenking this all seems true

 

[JohnCrover]

dude i have read so many posts on this site dating back to the first existence of this site and its not even funny i like to think that was me who count the cards and lost (or maybe they were my mentor)
i have no doubt in my mind people who lost tons of cash were on point and played strong games and still came out the sh*t tunnel with a bad taste, counters with strong counts more adv than the hi-lo and judging by the new comer Zenking this all seems true

Well, I have done pretty well, I know it's not a lot of money but i'm up 2,500 with not very many hours of play and the money has helped me out a lot. Yeah, I got lucky, I ran good for the amount of time I had played, but I did win something. I won enough to perform thousands of dollars above the theoretical loss the casinos assumed on me. I even got heat at one casino because they looked at my "Theo" (theoretical loss) and realized that the results were abnormal. To say that it doesn't work I don't think is right because I can pull up an excel spread sheet and prove it works.

 

[Stevel96a1]

2500 are you kidding me? people on 8/5 jacks or better video poker machine made more money on 0.25 machines than whatever table min you played on. 2500 is a drop in the bucket. you can thank your decisions by the count, or by variance, i never claimed to be a pro but people think i am the way i talk, no i am just a guy who gambles on the kitchen table to simulate real life casino conditions, and has a vast knowledge about blackjack and video poker, Arnold synder says you will have more losing sessions than winning but where you have the max bet is where it counts, and these wins and losses do not even themselves out from shoe to shoe no indeed they can last for 6,000 to 60k hands, again imagine what your roll will be like if you started with 1/2 kelly? maybe you will be one of the lucky ones like collin jones from blackjack appreticeship and never look back how he started a roll of 500 bucks, good luck to you (your gonna need it)

 

[JohnCrover]

Well, that's just my blackjack winnings. I have made more money playing poker but yeah I know it's not much and in retrospect probably not a very good success story LOL but everything is relative

 

[sidthesquid]

Its all true countering does work casinos would not back off players if it did. Blackjack is not an atm machine if it were that easy there be no beatable bj games. I am not saying it cant be done but is it worth the headache ? Take the back offs from the pit bull bosses and i am all for it until then its just a cat n mouse game

 

[Ryemo]

Whether you think it’s worth it or not is relative. I would say it is, but I depend on it.

 

[KewlJ]

Whether you think it’s worth it or not is relative. I would say it is, but I depend on it.

I always find the "worth it" discussions interesting. Almost as interesting as the count discussions. I look at myself with only a high school education, no special skills or practical work experience to speak of. I left a low end retail job to pursue my card counting interests. Since I moved to Vegas 9 years ago, I have averaged just over 70k a year in earnings from card counting blackjack. (we will forget a small amount of supplemental AP stuff for now and just go with BJ figures). I don't see any way I would be earning 70k, had I stayed on the path I was on in 2004, when I began my blackjack career. I figure at best I might be some low level manager at a retail establishment like Lowes or Target, making whatever they make 35-40k. That was my best case scenario.

And worse yet if my AP opportunities dried up today and I had to go find employment in the private work force, I would be lucky if someone offered me 20k, with no experience and a 14 year gap in my work history. So yeah, I can definitely say this option is worth it to me.

Now take someone like SmallCapGrowth and I am only using him as an example because many in the community are familiar with his history. If Smallcap or someone with his earning potential suddenly was forced to play my level of play (green to mid black) and had potential annual earnings in the 70k range, No, I think we can all agree it would not be worth it to him.

Second thing is that I think some of our more experienced players in the community (that is a kind way of saying older) are a bit tainted because they had access to much better conditions 20-30 years ago. Some of them, I think are no so much answering is it worth it, as they are comparing today's conditions to what they once enjoyed and looking down on that.

 

[21forme]

KJ - if you couldn't play any more, you could deal BJ (I'm being serious here.) Given your "work history," I think a casino would hire you. I've heard 60-80K bantered around as an average salary for a Strip dealer.

 

[BoSox]

Second thing is that I think some of our more experienced players in the community (that is a kind way of saying older) are a bit tainted because they had access to much better conditions 20-30 years ago. Some of them, I think are no so much answering is it worth it, as they are comparing today's conditions to what they once enjoyed and looking down on that.

After you explained you and your brother's situation perfectly clear and then get deliberately misinterpreted to mess with you, who in their right mind would make the same mistake you just did by answering? Besides making life changing decisions should be an individual choice. I do not know about any other old timers on the site, but I am not looking down on anyone, who is considering making life-changing choices to, is it worth it, or not, to make a career of gaming, as it is none of my business. I hope you did not mean me?

 

[KewlJ]

Besides making life changing decisions should be an individual choice. I do not know about any other old timers on the site, but I am not looking down on anyone, who is considering making life-changing choices to, is it worth it, or not, to make a career of gaming, as it is none of my business. I hope you did not mean me?

No I did NOT mean you Bosox. Really, I was not directing that at anyone in particular. Just a general comment that it is not that uncommon for some of the older guys to make some sort of comment about "unplayable" conditions today, or something really negative and discouraging, along those lines, when what they are really feeling is frustration that conditions aren't what they once were years ago.

That's understandable, but to some of us that have only played in the era of H17 and 8 and 6 deck games, few with surrender, these conditions are all we have ever known. We still see opportunity. Perhaps in another 15-20 years, when the "good" games are 6:5 and the bad, blackjack pays even money, I will be looking back doing the same thing.

 

[BoSox]

Thanks, KJ, glad to hear. I sure did not like the two clowns messing with you.

 

[JohnCrover]

If the "good games" paid 6 to 5 on a blackjack I don't think there would be many card counter AP's anymore.

 

[JohnCrover]

No I did NOT mean you Bosox. Really, I was not directing that at anyone in particular. Just a general comment that it is not that uncommon for some of the older guys to make some sort of comment about "unplayable" conditions today, or something really negative and discouraging, along those lines, when what they are really feeling is frustration that conditions aren't what they once were years ago.

That's understandable, but to some of us that have only played in the era of H17 and 8 and 6 deck games, few with surrender, these conditions are all we have ever known. We still see opportunity. Perhaps in another 15-20 years, when the "good" games are 6:5 and the bad, blackjack pays even money, I will be looking back doing the same thing.

I sympathize with the older generations. There use to be more casinos with mirrors on the ceiling. Ever since the decline it has been rough for may of us