The fine line between a helpful dealer and a cheat?

EdgeCapper

EdgeCapper

Member
I deal and if I notice somebody betting with the value, I will change deck pen depending on whether or not I like the person. I will usually deal near 80% to people who tip me and if you stiff me for long, your going to play only 40-50%. Most dealers I know that are educated in advantage play, give the same type of deal to their players. It is so much easier it is to get what you want in this town when you show your appreciation with a little something here and there.

FYI, an educated dealer will make alert calls when you make a suspicious move or bet. Some dealers think that "Cheques Play" means anything over $100. If you go downtown, many dealers go by the number of chips and not by the total dollar amount which makes me want to kick them in the throat when I see it. Well trained dealers, especially those who have experience supervising table games, know not to bother the floor unless they must. "Checques play" should be called if the bet is a large increase in relation to their previous bet and deserves the attention of the boss. Calls are required when a player first brings certain colored cheques into action which the floor is held accountable for and every casino's procedure is unique.

EC
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
EdgeCapper said:
I deal and if I notice somebody betting with the value...
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Do you usually keep a count, or just look for someone raising their bets near the end of the shoe?
 
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biggamejames

Well-Known Member
ColorMeUp said:
Or, as I found out at the El Cortez last week, $25. LOL
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i was perusing the casino yesterday during the rush hours, bullshitting around with a buddy of mine i ran into and wasting some dollars on roulette.

I noticed that the dealer dont really call "checks play" for $100 during high traffic hours.

(I assume it gets tiresome for them and the Pit crew because there are so many people playing different amounts.)

I noticed that they would call it at about 300 or more.


And the first time i got flat bet in a casino in my life just recently, the dealer simply stopped calling checks play after about 3 or 4 of them..I still got caught. So i wouldnt put too much stock in that idea that a dealer sells you out to the pit crew and the eye in the sky.
 
EdgeCapper

EdgeCapper

Member
EasyRhino said:
Do you usually keep a count, or just look for someone raising their bets near the end of the shoe?
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It depends. If I like the players, I will keep a simple Hi-Lo count in my head and keep track of aces. When the timing is right, I say "Who wants this blackjack that Im giving out this hand?" or I tell them to go "All-in" I mainly count the deck for players I dont recognize. If its your first time playing with me, I will watch for it usually.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
EdgeCapper said:
I deal and if I notice somebody betting with the value, I will change deck pen depending on whether or not I like the person. I will usually deal near 80% to people who tip me and if you stiff me for long, your going to play only 40-50%. Most dealers I know that are educated in advantage play, give the same type of deal to their players. It is so much easier it is to get what you want in this town when you show your appreciation with a little something here and there.
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What would you say is an acceptable minimum tipping for a card-counter to get the good penetration? zg
 
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21forme

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
What would you say is an acceptable minimum tipping for a card-counter to get the good penetration? zg
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And how do you "suggest" to the dealer he/she should cut deeper?
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
EdgeCapper said:
I deal and if I notice somebody betting with the value, I will change deck pen depending on whether or not I like the person. I will usually deal near 80% to people who tip me and if you stiff me for long, your going to play only 40-50%. Most dealers I know that are educated in advantage play, give the same type of deal to their players. It is so much easier it is to get what you want in this town when you show your appreciation with a little something here and there.
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You may be hurting the AP at the table by only dealing 40%, but you're also hurting yourself. You will shuffle more often and lose out on the tips you're actually getting from the other players. So it doesn't make sense for anyone to deal 40-50%. Yeah, you're hurting the AP, but it's at your expense as well, so why bother?
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
21forme said:
You're not going to answer me until he answers you?
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You have to make sure it's subtle, since it can be considered collusion if you are asking for better pen and paying him for it.
 
EdgeCapper

EdgeCapper

Member
ScottH said:
You may be hurting the AP at the table by only dealing 40%, but you're also hurting yourself. You will shuffle more often and lose out on the tips you're actually getting from the other players. So it doesn't make sense for anyone to deal 40-50%. Yeah, you're hurting the AP, but it's at your expense as well, so why bother?
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I rarely deal to counters anymore because I am usually assigned high limit games, which I dont bother counting because I need to focus on proper procedures and payouts knowing that i am being watched. Almost every advantage player I have dealt to will leave if more then one player sits down and go to an empty table, which is easy to find where I work due to the fact that they keep as many games open as they can, whether or not the demand is there.
 
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zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
EdgeCapper said:
I rarely deal to counters anymore because I am usually assigned high limit games, which I dont bother counting because I need to focus on proper procedures and payouts knowing that i am being watched. Almost every advantage player I have dealt to will leave if more then one player sits down and go to an empty table, which is easy to find where I work due to the fact that they keep as many games open as they can, whether or not the demand is there.
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OK, I'll make it hypothetical: You are dealing downtown, table minimum is $5 and the counter, whom you don't know, is spreading 5-40 2D. What kind of minimal tipping would maintain that 80%+ penetration? zg
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
Just play third base at any of Cortezs DD games and you'll be getting close to 80% or more at a full table.Face up with a cut card and no tipping.
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
shadroch said:
Just play third base at any of Cortezs DD games and you'll be getting close to 80% or more at a full table.Face up with a cut card and no tipping.
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You might get better penetration at third base, but it's only for playing decisions, not betting decisions. So if you sit at third you'll get to see many cards past the cut card, but they don't help you very much since you can't use that extra info for increasing your bet on the next round.
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
True, but if you find an empty DD table at EsCortez, then you can get reliable75% penetration (their little cut card notch) and play fast as hell.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
Except most of their dealers can't figure out three card combos and get hung up on paying a BJ.Things like that tend to slow the game down a tad.
Want to have some fun,let the winnings from a $5 BJ ride and watch the dealer as she tries to figure out 3/2 on $7.50.
 
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