These rules are amazing...

creeping panther

creeping panther

Banned
Inplay

There are alot of AP's here that are making money off of 6.5 too,,so they say. 3cp,,, we know all about that thanks to JG, right, maybe some slots can be beat, mind you I am not into slots but I will tell you a true story that just happened recently.

There was a middle aged gent that liked slots and was single and played at a Midwest casino, he got to know the attendants well and even the slot shift manager, a women. This women and man took a shine to one another and after fooling around outside the casino became more comfortable with each other. The talk of course was often about slots and this supervisor cut a deal with the man, she had figured out how and when a certain bank of machines would hit and one in particular and relayed this info to her friend on a daily basis. He was never to play on her shift but they would split the winnings evenly. Win he did, to the tune of $160,000 in 3 months until the casino barred him from even entering. When he hired an attorney and raised hell over the barring they let him back but by this time they both were scared and stopped the program. There is also one very interesting side note to this story that I dare not tell, but you would drop if you knew it.:eek:

CP
 
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I

InPlay

Banned
creeping panther said:
InPlay said:
There are alot of AP's here that are making money off of 6.5 too,,so they say. 3cp,,, we know all about that thanks to JG, right, maybe some slots can be beat, mind you I am not into slots but I will tell you a true story that just happened recently.

There was a middle aged gent that liked slots and was single and played at a Midwest casino, he got to know the attendants well and even the slot shift manager, a women. This women and man took a shine to one another and after fooling around outside the casino became more comfortable with each other. The talk of course was often about slots and this supervisor cut a deal with the man, she had figured out how and when a certain bank of machines would hit and one in particular and relayed this info to her friend on a daily basis. He was never to play on her shift but they would split the winnings evenly. Win he did, to the tune of $160,000 in 3 months until the casino barred him from even entering. When he hired an attorney and raised hell over the barring they let him back but by this time they both were scared and stopped the program. There is also one very interesting side note to this story that I dare not tell, but you would drop if you knew it.:eek:

CP
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I have heard that story from all slot players. One told me that they hit at a certain time. One does not use her players card because if the casino know's that she is playing they will not win, because she has hit a couple of jackpot's already. It's all luck nothing else. The controler is the RNG. The Casino it self could not tell you what machine or bank of machine is going to hit. The only way to beat them is being a slot cheat which I don't know anything about or be just lucky. Remember RNG.
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K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
creeping panther said:
Would you rather pat a 4% sales tax or a 5% sales tax.................
Either you go with the math or you don't.;)
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Personally, I'd rather pay a 5% sales tax buying 35 $1 items an hour, like say there are 35 spins an hour at a $1 full roulette table, and lose $1.75 in that hour vs paying a 4% sales tax buying 100 $1 items an hour, like say at an empty BJ table, and lose $4 in that hour.

Which sales tax rate would you say is a better use of your time?

Is it any different, I ask you as an AP player, who may perhaps choose to play a heads-up game for one hour with a lower +avg Win% vs a game with a higher avg W% wherein one can only play some fraction of those hands per hour that yield fewer $'s for that hour despite a higher "HA" to you?

All without mentioning the effect of, perhaps, a different $min bet in either circumstance.

No big deal - I've never thought the classification of a "better" game was as simple as only knowing the HA of one game vs the other, whether + or - to the player.

Do you really think I'd care if my wife played a 75% pay-back slot machine if it was limited to 1 cent per spin but could play 600 spins an hour - I'd welcome the fact she was playing perhaps the crappiest game in the world and only losing $1.50 an hour. A big improvement from giving her $50 to play slots on my way to the men's room and, returning 5 minutes later, her asking for another $50 while playing some 3-spot $1 machine lmao.

To my credit, I just laughed :grin:

Anyway, that's the kind of math I'd use, and actually do use as a cheap -EV voodoo guy almost every time before I play lol, but I am curious as to your apparent fixation that a "higher HA" in and of by itself somehow automatically renders a given game "not as good" as another game with a lower HA.

Is that really the only factor you take into consideration and, if so, what math are you going with that creates that decision?

Just being my usual pain in the neck, don't mean you per se but it seems to be an opinion shared by others too. I'd like to understand it better.
 
creeping panther

creeping panther

Banned
Inplay

InPlay said:
creeping panther said:
I have heard that story from all slot players. One told me that they hit at a certain time. One does not use her players card because if the casino know's that she is playing they will not win, because she has hit a couple of jackpot's already. It's all luck nothing else. The controler is the RNG. The Casino it self could not tell you what machine or bank of machine is going to hit. The only way to beat them is being a slot cheat which I don't know anything about or be just lucky. Remember RNG.
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Of course slot players as a rule are very prone to story telling and superstition.

The event I spoke of was true, you need not believe it, what she did to garner the info I have not a clue.

But strange things can happen and we should not be close minded as to their possibility.

The Pro I spoke about took down $47,000 in 24 hours of slot play, and he knew what he was after. He never had a regular job after that, even though he has an advanced degree. He is very well known to all who are anyone in the BJ AP world.:)

CP
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S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
creeping panther said:
shadroch said:
have a pay back, 75%, 80% 98% etc, they are set at that payback. Thus when a casino is caught with a machine set at a payback lower than what is allowed they are fined. Can you understand now. 98% on a slot is not that exciting BTW, try VP for much better. There are some slots that you can really make some money on if you are so inclined, I am not, but some very close to me are.



I do not want to get into this very deep but if you know the right people and have the ability to do so and have befriended the right people you can learn some real juicy inside info on some machines.;)

There is a very famous AP Pro who's decision to turn Pro was not because of what happened at the Felt but in front of a slot machine.

CP
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I'm sorry but thats utter BS. No casino has slots set for 98% payback. Nor would they be fined for not having it set as such. The minimum payback in NJ and Nevada is set by the state. However, competition causes payouts to be set much higher. You can get a reading on what a casinos machine paid out percentage wise on a monthly basis from the State Agencies. You can't get what a casinos machines are set to pay. It's not like VP where the paytable tells you almost everything you need to know. About the closest you can get is if the casino is certified as having loose slots by Strictly Slots and Casino Magazine.
As far as befriending the right people, I would imagine my ten year friendship with the former head of slots, now exec. VP of one of Harrahs properties in AC just might qualify.
I can fully understand you not wanting to get into this, as your original statement is indefensable. I suggest you advance in another direction and hope people forget about it.
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creeping panther

creeping panther

Banned
Shad

shadroch said:
creeping panther said:
I'm sorry but thats utter BS. No casino has slots set for 98% payback. Nor would they be fined for not having it set as such. The minimum payback in NJ and Nevada is set by the state. However, competition causes payouts to be set much higher. You can get a reading on what a casinos machine paid out percentage wise on a monthly basis from the State Agencies. You can't get what a casinos machines are set to pay. It's not like VP where the paytable tells you almost everything you need to know. About the closest you can get is if the casino is certified as having loose slots by Strictly Slots and Casino Magazine.
As far as befriending the right people, I would imagine my ten year friendship with the former head of slots, now exec. VP of one of Harrahs properties in AC just might qualify.
I can fully understand you not wanting to get into this, as your original statement is indefensable. I suggest you advance in another direction and hope people forget about it.
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Shad, you dissapoint me. A casino is not fined for not having a 98% machine , they are fined for having a machine under the minimum. Keep up with me Shad!

Strictly Slots and Casino Magazine, really..:laugh:

Do you also think Roulette is unbeatable....do you?

Do you deny that it has been beaten to the amounts in excess of a million$'s by small teams finding biased wheels....hmmmm...OOOOOO I guess that is just a fallacy, just a foolish daydream...eh? Even Einstein said the only way to beat it was to cheat, and he was...WRONG.

OK, no 98% pay backs in slots, if YOU say so, :rolleyes: and by the way, that friend of yours at the casino, were you as friendly with him as the couple were in the incident I wrote of?:gaga: Shame on shadrock.:):laugh:

AIF,
CP
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I

InPlay

Banned
creeping panther said:
InPlay said:
Of course slot players as a rule are very prone to story telling and superstition.

The event I spoke of was true, you need not believe it, what she did to garner the info I have not a clue.

But strange things can happen and we should not be close minded as to their possibility.

The Pro I spoke about took down $47,000 in 24 hours of slot play, and he knew what he was after. He never had a regular job after that, even though he has an advanced degree. He is very well known to all who are anyone in the BJ AP world.:)

CP
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Are there Pro Slot Players ? Can anyone name this person ?
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I

InPlay

Banned
Good read makes a lot of sense, especially the part about the frog.



Relying on Lady Luck in the Casino

By Jean Scott

I have long advocated choosing casino games that involve skill, such as blackjack and video poker, because you can study and improve your chances for winning. But the vast majority of players take comfort in the much more convenient - and much less strenuous - concept of luck. And that’s not necessarily always a bad thing; I have seen some benefits of appealing to that capricious beauty—Lady Luck.

Some players like to ask a change person to point them to a lucky machine, that is, one that will hit a jackpot soon. Now, no casino employee knows that information - but many will give you their guess. And if you take their advice and lose? Well, you now have someone to blame for your bad luck. Some people feel better when they can think of a reason, a valid one or not, why they lost.

Often players don special clothes in which to gamble. Maybe you wore a particular shirt the last time you had a big win.If you feel lucky in that shirt, what’s the harm? I have a pair of gold tennis shoes I wear when I play in home poker games. I certainly don’t believe my shoes are responsible for wins and losses. But it sometimes psyches out the other players when I tell them that my golden shoes make me unbeatable.

I occasionally see people pushing the single credit button on a slot machine two or three or five times, rather than hitting the max-coin button once. Pure superstition, of course, that this will help you win but it’s actually a good idea if you’re playing a machine with a high house edge. Anything that slows down your play will cut down on your losses and the less you lose, the “luckier” for you. The same is true of pulling a slot handle instead of pushing the spin button (if you can even find a slot machine with a handle anymore) or taking the time to change machines often.

I’ve seen players try to “control” slot machines by certain actions. They’ll get up and walk around their machine to “disturb the aura,” rub the machine to “massage” out a jackpot, peck on the glass to “wake up” the wild cards, even kiss the machine (I advise against this for reasons of hygiene). A friend of mine uses one of the funniest techniques I’ve ever come across. She “punishes” naughty machines by putting them in “time out” while she plays an adjoining one. None of this fazes the mindless machine – but it seems to relieve player tension!

I’m fascinated by all the rabbits’ feet, four-leaf clovers, trolls, pictures, tiger’s teeth, prosperity potions, and assorted talismans that decorate, for example, the tables of any bingo hall. I don’t have to wonder why everyone seems to be having a good time—it’s because there’s so much “luck in the air.”

And that’s the point. If your good-luck frog on top of a video poker machine or a picture of your grandchildren behind the coin slot makes you feel good, then it’s valuable, because that’s one of the goals of gambling – entertainment, an activity that gives you a good time. Using “lucky” charms or rituals is harmless as long as you realize they’re just something to relieve the mental stress when you’re on the losing side of a gambling session. Only when you believe that they can change the odds of a game and you depend on them for luck, instead of developing your skills, does it become a harmful thing. Did you ever notice that you don’t need them so much when you’re winning?

Jean Scott is one of the country’s most renowned and successful gamblers and has appeared on many TV shows, including 48 Hours, where Dan Rather gave her the nickname of Queen of Comps. Her first book, The Frugal Gambler, has been a best-seller for nine years. She also wrote a sequel, More Frugal Gambling, and a tax guide for gamblers. She provides a complete resource package for video poker players, from beginners to the experienced: the Frugal VP software program which goes with her new book, Frugal Video Poker, and the must-have Frugal Video Poker Scouting Guide. Her Web site is http://www.queenofcomps.com
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
Nobody has heard about Wongable slots? I have only seen a few of them, and usually with very low denominations, but they do still exist. They used to be more popular and much more profitable many years ago, but there still may be a few opportunities left.

-Sonny-
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
Alas, they are almost non-existant these days. I still check out a web-site devoted to sometimes EV+ slots, but the few they find are generally in remote places, or are so lame as to not be worth chasing.
As an example of what Sonny is referring to, the used to be a diamond mine slot machine. Every time a diamond appeared on a reel, it was added to one of several mines. In the course of play, the diamonds would add up, and at a certain weight the whole mine would come crashing down, and you'd score a nice bonus. Civilians , who didn't know the game, would play awhile and get the mine partialy filled before switching machines. A scavanger would descend and finish it off, reaping the rewards. It became fairly well known and I've heard one of the reasons for the games disappearence was that too many aurguments and fights broke out amongst the scavangers. To my surprise,I found just such a machine in Laughlin last year, but it never reached levels I thought were worth wonging in to.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
I actually saw a guy blatantly (desperately) stalking the people playing a wongable penny machine on my last trip to Vegas. I normally like to check the machines if I am passing by just for the fun of it. That guy looked like he needed the money badly and I wasn't about to fight the guy for the chance to win a few bucks. Slot wongers can be very aggressive, which is why many of the machines were removed. They are a dying breed.

-Sonny-
 
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