Want to get back into countin..... the right way

[rookie789]

Must be a typo

sagefrOg, I think what your post was meant to say is "I really don't have the frOgiest".

 

[Kasi]

I also need to read on how much to spread and when.

What counting system you use, how fast you can count, what indices you use are irrelevant if you don't know how much to bet and when for the roll you have and how you are playing the game you are playing.

Spend alot of time, and then more, on that - the rest pales in comparison.

 

[Kasi]

I As far as bonus whoring goes. Uh.......um ......... Ya know, thats a good question!

I don't know about these days, don't play anymore, but there's a reason I haven't worked for 9 years.

In the old days the money was unreal.

So unreal, I still shoot myself for operating under under the adage "If it seems too good to be true.....".

It's where I began to learn how to measure the liklihood of my results because it would just make no sense if they ran a fair game. My God it was like I was the casino running a Keno game. My edge was enormous. Who could believe an internet casino could fairly give such an edge away? It was not gambling. It was 95% certainty. And I won and won and won, year after year, and still couldn't quite bring myself to believe it was real.

Never found a crooked game. Easily left several hundred thousand and more on the table just not believing the "theory" lol.

I'm sure alot of you will feel better knowing I still wake up in the middle of the night screaming at the lost opportunity. Sure, I won enough to live on for 9 years but it could have been 90 years.

You can thank our right-wing Nazi bible-thumping Republican gov't for
that for passing it by voice vote in the middle of the night unread and
undebated.

 

[sagefr0g]

I don't know about these days, don't play anymore, but there's a reason I haven't worked for 9 years.

well that explains a few things lol.....

.......

You can thank our right-wing Nazi bible-thumping Republican gov't for
that for passing it by voice vote in the middle of the night unread and
undebated.

tell us what you really think Kasi. but would it made any differance if it was democrats

 

[troyer]

I;ve been practicing and reviewing basic strategy everynight. I have a few questions, sorry if some of them are fairly stupid:

1. what is penetration?
2. My book says to stand on a 77 into a 10. Is this true for more than one deck, say 6-8?

Thanks

 

[vonQuux]

what is penetration?

Well, Troyer, when a boy and a girl love each other very much...

Oops. Sorry, wrong forum.

Penetration is how far into the shoe the dealer goes before reshuffling.

My book says to stand on a 77 into a 10. Is this true for more than one deck, say 6-8?

I'm really new so maybe I'm the one who is mistaken here but ...are you sure you're reading that right? I can't find any BS that calls for standing vs. 7's. The chard I'm looking at for a 1D game is to split vs. dealer's 2-7, otherwise hit.

IIRC, that's the same answer for 6D too.

vQ

 

[la_dee_daa]

I;ve been practicing and reviewing basic strategy everynight. I have a few questions, sorry if some of them are fairly stupid:

1. what is penetration?
2. My book says to stand on a 77 into a 10. Is this true for more than one deck, say 6-8?

Thanks

ask a femal dealer what penetration is:laugh:

the reason for standing on 77 v 10 is only in single deck becuase you know have 2 less sevens to create a 21 out of your hand. vs if you had 10,4 where all 4 7s are still live. this doesn't apply to 6 or 8 decks

 

[mjbballar23]

I;ve
2. My book says to stand on a 77 into a 10. Is this true for more than one deck, say 6-8?

Thanks

stand 77 v. 10 is for single deck only!

 

[vonQuux]

stand 77 v. 10 is for single deck only!

Yeah, I stand corrected.

 

[troyer]

thanks all. haha i knew i was going to get those reponses about penetration. A few more questions about it.

Why is it so important?
Couldnt it be controlled if the dealer lets you cut the deck?

 

[la_dee_daa]

thanks all. haha i knew i was going to get those reponses about penetration. A few more questions about it.

Why is it so important?
Couldnt it be controlled if the dealer lets you cut the deck?

its important because the count can flux more and get higher at the end of the deck because you have less decks left. so if u had a 8 deck game with 4 decks up off each time it would be very rare for the count to ever get high making it worthless to play. i dont know how to describe it well but u want as many cards delt out of the shoe as possible the more information the better!

even though you make the cut in the deck it doesn't give u better penetration they put a seperate card to mark when to re-deal. You just determine which part of the cards is played first which unless your shuffle tracking doesn't really concern you.

 

[vonQuux]

thanks all. haha i knew i was going to get those reponses about penetration. A few more questions about it. Why is it so important?

Think of it this way. Suppose you're working with a single deck (so TC and RC are equal).

In the first example, you observe the first card to be a 2, giving you a true count of +1. What does that tell you about the next card in the pack? Not much. There are twenty paint cards left, 19 cards with values 2-6 and twelve cards between 7-9. So your odds for the next card is:

2-6: 36.5%
7-9: 23.0%
X-A: 38.5%

In the second example, you have a true count of +1 but you've penetrated so far into the deck that you've only got two cards left. Now what are your odds for the next card?

2-6: 0.0%
7-9: 50.0%
X-A: 50.0%

That's kind of an extreme example but just to illustrate the point. The smaller the remaining pool of unknowns, the more your "knowns" matter.

Couldnt it be controlled if the dealer lets you cut the deck?

Yes, but only if you know things about the composition of the deck after they've shuffled it. For example, if you can shuffle track a particular card, or if you know a particular clump of cards contains an inordinate type of card, the cut can definitely be useful. But if not, no.

vQ

 

[troyer]

A few more questions.....

how do you count the cards when they come out of the shoe? I am having a pretty easy time cancleing pairs out. But do you count them individually as each persons first card is dealt?

Second..

I have read some about "wonging" or backcounting. Wouldnt this be a dead giveaway at a casino? If i am understanding this right, you stand there and observe a table, counting it, then sit down and play when the count is high. Do casinos even allow you to just stand and watch for what could be an extended period of time? Thanks

 

[la_dee_daa]

A few more questions.....

how do you count the cards when they come out of the shoe? I am having a pretty easy time cancleing pairs out. But do you count them individually as each persons first card is dealt?

Second..

I have read some about "wonging" or backcounting. Wouldnt this be a dead giveaway at a casino? If i am understanding this right, you stand there and observe a table, counting it, then sit down and play when the count is high. Do casinos even allow you to just stand and watch for what could be an extended period of time? Thanks

I count them in pairs so most of them cancel out it easier.

actually its not, other people seem to do it to who are just watching the table to see if its lucky or not. Well standing behind one table for 40 mins might be a little obviouse. You go around backcounting other tables not just one. watching other games next ot the blackjack tables such as craps, roulette, talk on a cell phone. stuff like that

 

[troyer]

I count them in pairs so most of them cancel out it easier.

actually its not, other people seem to do it to who are just watching the table to see if its lucky or not. Well standing behind one table for 40 mins might be a little obviouse. You go around backcounting other tables not just one. watching other games next ot the blackjack tables such as craps, roulette, talk on a cell phone. stuff like that

wouldnt you have to backcount from the begining of a shoe? Sorry if this a dumb question.

 

[la_dee_daa]

wouldnt you have to backcount from the begining of a shoe? Sorry if this a dumb question.

yea you would

 

[sagefr0g]

wouldnt you have to backcount from the begining of a shoe? Sorry if this a dumb question.

not necessarily. but if you come in back counting a shoe that you missed some cards you need to mentally religate those missed cards to being undealt cards when you calculate your TC.

 

[troyer]

not necessarily. but if you come in back counting a shoe that you missed some cards you need to mentally religate those missed cards to being undealt cards when you calculate your TC.

So for example,
If i come in mid-shoe and backcount. The first hand i see the RC = TC because "no cards have been dealt" - that i can see? Am i correct?

 

[la_dee_daa]

So for example,
If i come in mid-shoe and backcount. The first hand i see the RC = TC because "no cards have been dealt" - that i can see? Am i correct?

You can come in mid shoe its just any cards that have been delt are the same as being behind the cut card so u have worse pen.. which is a very bad thing.

So say you come in and one deck has been delt out and you start counting.. you start at 0 but u imagine that that deck is behind the cut card. so after after deck is delt out say your running count is +10, there are 2 decks in the discard tray thing but you only saw one so your tc= 10/5. so its the same as playing a shoe that deals one less deck out so if they cut off 1.5 decks now you have 2.5 decks cut off.

In the end its the count of the cards you have seen / the amount of decks that havent been seen.

i sometime do it when trying to find other tables that are getting ready to shuffle and don't notice they have started but usually only miss a hand.

 

[sagefr0g]

So for example,
If i come in mid-shoe and backcount. The first hand i see the RC = TC because "no cards have been dealt" - that i can see? Am i correct?

no actually say if your using full deck estimation to calculate your TC then it would be TC = RC/(#decks left to be dealt) .
so you'd look at the discards and for example say there was one deck in the discards and say this was a six deck shoe. ok you'd have to consider that deck in the discards as actually not having been dealt. so you mentally put it back in the pack undealt. so now to determine your true count it would be
TC = RC/6. just for an example. where you started counting and had not seen those cards that were dealt and now sitting in the discard tray. so if you do wong in and start playing and counting you have to keep in your mind that decks worth of cards that you didn't see and pretend as if they are in the undealt pack when you determine your TC from your RC.