Witnessed a ploppy get backed off

[WABJ11]

I was at a table where a drunk was loud and nasty, but flashing a large bankroll and losing it quickly. He was bothering me, and everyone else at the table, but the pit treated him with kid gloves and unwarranted courtesy. When I decided to move to another table to get away from this obnoxious fellow, the pit indicated I was doing the smart thing... but I could tell that he could care less about me and the others at the table, focusing only on keeping this drunken fool happy and blowing his cash. Sometimes you get to glimpse behind the casino facade, but we all know the truth anyway even if they do a great job of covering it up.

I wonder how much casinos actually make. We know the mob-controlled casinos used to skim like crazy and still the casinos made profits. How do they hide obscene profits today? Is it by building these several billion dollar edifices filled with expensive art work and elaborate amenities so that the profits never show up on the bottom line, instead it all goes to pay off their indebtedness. I wonder how these construction and furnishing contracts are designed? Are some of them secret conduits for draining off revenues from the casinos through "legitimate" business arrangements with secretly insider companies? I don't know. As a former auditor, I am always suspicious, especially when the history and culture of an industry is rife with fraud and double dealing. Personally, I wouldn't want to do an audit of Vegas or AC casinos; I'm afraid I might end up in a hole in the desert or washing up on the Jersey shore. Or do you think I am being overly suspicious?

I certainly would feel safer doing an audit of NJ casinos where you actually feel like the commission is on your side (true or not). NV on the other hand is another story...

I have always had the inkling that an industry filled with corruption and organized crime couldn't just one day suddenly be ridden of all of this. I would agree that you may have the right idea. Who knows maybe in twenty years a movie "Casino II" will be released and we'll know all the facts then.

 

[aslan]

Incredible! And frightening! I don't care how much money he was losing...criminal behavior should not be tolerated. Wonder what the outcome would have been if the drunk had assaulted another player instead of an employee?

A friend of mine and his buddy were drunk in AC this past year. His buddy got into it with a security guard. My friend was trying to protect his buddy. The security guard shoved my friend, and my friend punched him and broke his nose. My friend got a year ban from all casinos in AC and community service. That hurts since he was playing poker for a living over the past four years.

 

[aslan]

I certainly would feel safer doing an audit of NJ casinos where you actually feel like the commission is on your side (true or not). NV on the other hand is another story...

I have always had the inkling that an industry filled with corruption and organized crime couldn't just one day suddenly be ridden of all of this. I would agree that you may have the right idea. Who knows maybe in twenty years a movie "Casino II" will be released and we'll know all the facts then.

FYI, the NJ Gaming Commission was abolished this year. There is no longer a gaming regulator on the premises of any casino in AC. The responsibility for gaming is now under the gaming enforcement division of the NJ State Police. I wonder what expertise the State Police have in gaming matters anyway?

 

[tthree]

FYI, the NJ Gaming Commission was abolished this year. There is no longer a gaming regulator on the premises of any casino in AC. The responsibility for gaming is now under the gaming enforcement division of the NJ State Police. I wonder what expertise the State Police have in gaming matters anyway?

How easily bought is the NJ state police?

 

[blackriver]

I'm pretty sure they'd be more protective of other patrons. although the commerce always feels like the wild west. Supposedly some dude got stabbed there. The stabber was banned for a week

 

[Automatic Monkey]

FYI, the NJ Gaming Commission was abolished this year. There is no longer a gaming regulator on the premises of any casino in AC. The responsibility for gaming is now under the gaming enforcement division of the NJ State Police. I wonder what expertise the State Police have in gaming matters anyway?

Probably like any other routine police-business relationship: the cop asks the pit boss or shift manager "What would you like me to do," the manager says something, and then the cop turns around and does it. Who is really right will get sorted out after you post bail and have paid a few thousand to a lawyer.

That is unless they have real gaming investigators who just happen to work for the state police.

 

[aslan]

Probably like any other routine police-business relationship: the cop asks the pit boss or shift manager "What would you like me to do," the manager says something, and then the cop turns around and does it. Who is really right will get sorted out after you post bail and have paid a few thousand to a lawyer.

That is unless they have real gaming investigators who just happen to work for the state police.

I have no doubt you're 100% correct. As for the real gaming investigators, my guess is they're saying: "What do we need a gaming investigator for? Investigations is our business."

Not having the Gaming Commission presence in the casino itself is not so hot from a customer point of view. If you have a complaint, you can no longer amble up to the window and report it.

 

[CrazyEddie]

I have no doubt you're 100% correct. As for the real gaming investigators, my guess is they're saying: "What do we need a gaming investigator for? Investigations is our business."

Not having the Gaming Commission presence in the casino itself is not so hot from a customer point of view. If you have a complaint, you can no longer amble up to the window and report it.

You mean there is no longer anybody sitting in those little booths reading newspapers? What are they going to do with the real estate?

 

[aslan]

You mean there is no longer anybody sitting in those little booths reading newspapers? What are they going to do with the real estate?

Nobody sitting there. No more gaming authority at the casinos. If you have a problem, they will give you the state police's number if you think that will help you.

 

[pit15]

I would love to audit the casino's finances.

First thing I'd say is how much will you pay me to approve your books as-is?

 

[aslan]

I would love to audit the casino's finances.

First thing I'd say is how much will you pay me to approve your books as-is?

I knew a guy who audited for New York state. He audited the books of Exxon and his opening volley was, "Give me a million dollars in exceptions and I will go to the dog track; otherwise, I will do an audit and promise you I will find twice that amount. It's your choice."

"And, Ladies and Gentlemen, there g-o-e-s S-w-i-fty!"

 

[FLASH1296]

"Outcome ?"

"What outcome ?"

"We ain't got no stinkin' outcome" !

This occurred in a casino in a "sovereign nation"

What is generally referred to as an Indian Reservation.

What I term a "tribal enterprise".

 

[aslan]

"Outcome ?"

"What outcome ?"

"We ain't got no stinkin' outcome" !

This occurred in a casino in a "sovereign nation"

What is generally referred to as an Indian Reservation.

What I term a "tribal enterprise".

Whatever your gripe is, an outcome in a Tribal court is every much an outcome as an outcome in a US court. If you are referring to justice, I have heard many a person of color complain about being unable to get justice in a US court. So what else is new?

It's hard to hear what you are saying, but it seems like you are jumping down Mica's throat, which is uncalled for, but like I say, it's hard to hear whether you are screaming or speaking gently. You might want to relate some anecdote to explain what you mean in a dispassionate manner. Then we could all benefit by what you mean as it applies to blackjack.

Has anyone here ever been tried by a Tribal court? It would be good to know what we're up against so we can rationally decide whether to chance playing in a sovereign nation other than the US. For example, I would like to know if there are typically extreme feelings of animosity by Indian casinos and courts against Americans (or maybe just white Americans). When I was in Germany most Germans were very friendly, but some few were extremely hateful toward Americans. I was told, but do not know first hand, that those Germans circa 1965 who disliked Americans most were more often than not among the German intelligentsia, college professors and the like. But I digress.

 

[FLASH1296]

Aslan,

You are way off-base here.

Mica and I have a friendly relationship.

I did NOT "jump down her throat"

As far as my "gripe" goes ...

Are you kidding me or are you

infected with "politically correctness".

I have never heard of a single case

where justice was dispensed to a

non-Indian in a contentious case.

Have you?

 

[aslan]

Aslan,

You are way off-base here.

Mica and I have a friendly relationship.

I did NOT "jump down her throat"

As far as my "gripe" goes ...

Are you kidding me or are you

infected with "politically correctness".

I have never heard of a single case

where justice was dispensed to a

non-Indian in a contentious case.

Have you?

Well, I did express confusion as to what your tone and meaning was. It's very difficult when you write everything in large letters to determine what you mean. It's like you are shouting, and especially so when you are disagreeing with someone. I am happy to hear you are on such amiable terms with mica, as she deserves nothing less.

As for Tribal courts and Native American relations I was asking for a more reasoned response than the barbed language you were throwing out there. I have had only one experience with Indian casinos and that was playing at a couple of casinos in the Seattle area. Those events were without incident. I have had zero experience with Tribal courts, but see the potential for trouble due to possible racism as I have seen expressed here in the Forum. I still only know that you feel strongly that you can't receive justice in a Tribal situation, either with a casino or a court. I was hoping you would share facts, supporting your feelings, so others could judge for themselves. As it is, I will cast a wary eye toward Indian casinos avoiding them until I have more factual information to go on. Meanwhile true stories from you or other forum members would be appreciated, both pro and con this issue. Sorry, I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, but I'm not a mind reader.

 

[FLASH1296]

Here is a trivial tidbit for you:

On the N.Y. / Canada border lies Akwesasne Mohawk Casino, on the Saint Regis Reservation.

You cannot reach same from the East or the West without driving a lengthy state road.

The first time there its a shocker. There is never much traffic but what traffic there is moves at 30 m.p.h. Not more. Not less. You find yourself wondering about this. A nice smooth blacktop through mostly unpopulated land normally has the traffic moving at 55 or 60 m.p.h.

It is because you re on Reservation Property and although it is a State Road the Tribal Police may tag you for speeding. I have never been stopped there, but from what I have been told by the locals is ... You are not given a summons. You are taken to their jail and there you will "cool your heels" waiting endlessly for someone in a position of authority to show up. He simply looks at you and decides, (apparently based upon your appearance), what cash fine they can extract from you.

Of course, this is Sovereign Territory, and although most of the signs are no longer legible, there is still a very large one posted at the Western end of that road (near Massena, NY) which states without ambiguity that F.B.I. agents, I.R.S. agents, and State Police are forbidden to enter the reservation.

 

[Gamblor]

Has anyone here ever been tried by a Tribal court?

Yes, sentencing often involves a lot of scalping.

 

[aslan]

Yes, sentencing often involves a lot of scalping.

I was beginning to gather that, Is male pattern baldness a deterrent?

 

[aslan]

Here is a trivial tidbit for you:

On the N.Y. / Canada border lies Akwesasne Mohawk Casino, on the Saint Regis Reservation.

You cannot reach same from the East or the West without driving a lengthy state road.

The first time there its a shocker. There is never much traffic but what traffic there is moves at 30 m.p.h. Not more. Not less. You find yourself wondering about this. A nice smooth blacktop through mostly unpopulated land normally has the traffic moving at 55 or 60 m.p.h.

It is because you re on Reservation Property and although it is a State Road the Tribal Police may tag you for speeding. I have never been stopped there, but from what I have been told by the locals is ... You are not given a summons. You are taken to their jail and there you will "cool your heels" waiting endlessly for someone in a position of authority to show up. He simply looks at you and decides, (apparently based upon your appearance), what cash fine they can extract from you.

Of course, this is Sovereign Territory, and although most of the signs are no longer legible, there is still a very large one posted at the Western end of that road (near Massena, NY) which states without ambiguity that F.B.I. agents, I.R.S. agents, and State Police are forbidden to enter the reservation.

Your story reminds me of the I-95 corridor down the east coast from Virginia to Florida. You can travel at high speeds all the way, buy don't get lulled into a false sense of security. If you get off the highway for a meal or gas at any small town along the way, you have a very good chance of falling into a radar trap on a 25 to 35 mph town road, and they mean business. "But officer, I was only doing 42 in a 35 mph zone." Don't argue; you're already dead meat.

Or how about the speed trap that used to be between Richmond and Petersburg going south. The hill was so steep you could not help but exceed the speed limit if you were coasting in neutral. I don't know if it is still there, but it was a classic!

We have a small stretch of 25 mph road near me that has three speed bumps along one block that require slowing down to 15 mph. Fines are doubled. Still, people post signs in their front yards stating, "Drive slowly. We live here." You couldn't speed on that road if you tried, unless you wanted to tear out your muffler and drive shaft. :laugh:

 

[21forme]

If you get off the highway for a meal or gas at any small town along the way, you have a very good chance of falling into a radar trap on a 25 to 35 mph town road, and they mean business. "But officer, I was only doing 42 in a 35 mph zone." Don't argue; you're already dead meat.

That's what radar detectors are for.

I know what you're about to say - they're illegal in VA (and CT), which is an illegal law. I'd rather get caught with a radar detector (and how are they going to catch me, with no wires hanging by my windshield?) than get a speeding ticket.