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I have been a dealer for 10years. 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. First, if you play on a table that offers surrender you are throwing your money away. As soon as someone on a table surrenders the whole shoe is ruined. Surrender is the biggest scam in blackjack. Second if you play with someone who doesn’t know when to hit and when not to hit there goes that shoe. NOT THE HAND, THE SHOE! As far as card counting, that might have worked on single shoes but it doesn’t work on 6 deck shoes. As soon as someone makes a mistake in basic stradigy there goes the SHOE. The worse mistake that can be made is to play with someone who does not hit a 16 against the dealers 10. 9. 8 or 7. No worse than splitting face cards. Every mistake a player makes cost the table 3 hands they would have won. It want be the next 3 hands in a row but I guarantee you it will cost you 3 hands for every mistake anyone on the table makes. I have stood back there and studied this game for 10 yrs and I can almost tell you the 3 hands you will lose after a mistake is made. You have to play on a no midshoe entry table. Players jumping in the middle of a shoe kills a shoe. People have no Idea how to play this game. I would say 1 in 100 really know how to play blackjack. Want to win at blackjack? Play heads up on the dealer. Blackjack is a mistake driven game. The more players the more mistakes made. At least heads up with a dealer all you have to worry about are mistakes you make. If you play perfect basic stradegy at best you will beat the dealer on average 7 or 8 more hands in a shoe. I am not a guru trying to sell you anything just 10 long yrs of watching and analizing the game. I am also a player. So listen or not thats how it is.
I disagree with Mike Gunter and this is precisely why listening to dealers is bad business. If the game is square, it doesn’t matter how others play. The cards you still receive are random and a count with basic strategy still applies. Folks all caught up in how others play are too superstitious. But agreed, it’s very frustrating to see mistakes that cost you a hand(s.). But if you really pay attention, those mistakes win you hands also. Cards come out random, how others play have no mathematical affect on the shoe. Enjoy
It’s amazing how many blackjack dealers don’t know how to play blackjack. I hear bad advice given from blackjack dealers all the time. I have been told I made a bad plays when hitting soft 18 vs. a dealers picture card plus hitting 12 against a dealers 3. Just two examples of dealers stupitity. Bernie
As a veteran blackjack player, I have to agree with Bernie. Dealers generally do not know the finer points of the game. Their knowledge of the game is generally acquired by observing repetitive actions of the players, and as most skilled players know, most players don’t really know how to play the game. Regarding playing with unskilled players, it’s true that you seem to remember how others bad play cost you hands, but I have come to believe that their stupidity will result in an equal number of hands that I win. One thing for sure, it is almost impossible to find a table where all of the players are skilled. Just learn to deal with the fools and have fun.
Since today’s dealers are probably tomorrow’s pit bosses, this is why I think that there will always be beatable blackjack games out there. Let them all think you can’t beat the game. 🙂
For the longest time I used to think that bad players prevented me from winning, but it turns out not so much. The thing with bad players is they don’t have as much of an affect on your hand as you like to think. The thing with BJ players is they react to the immediate situation and never think about the long run. All those hands you think drunk guy splitting 10’s cost you will come back to your favor later even though in the moment you are seething. Obviously if you play once a year then these beats seem worse and sting more, but with such a small sample size you’re not going to care what anyone tells you anyways because your recent experiences will ring loudest. I’ve definitely had tables where players played so bad they booted them from the table so once in a while the gods hear you. I never listen to dealers but do pretend I that care about their advice since it seems to make me more personable and gets me further with the pit. I like to act like I don’t know what I want to do when I know exactly what I’m going to do because, unlike Poker, weak is strong is not always a bad thing. I want them to think I’m a not quite an idiot but a weak player who leans on the casino a little bit. I don’t win all the time, but I always have fun..otherwise why play???
The above statements are all interesting. I like a table where I am confortable and prefer players who are good because it seems to lift the leveal of play. Card counting, even speed counting is mentally taxing after a few hours. Generally it is best to ignore all comments and concentrate on your playing. Gambling, especially blackjack, is a mathematical experience so stay with some form of perfect strategy. Most people, including dealers, are not familiar with probabilities so their advice, mo matter how sincere,must be considered suspect. Randomness is often misunderstook because it includes streaks of winning and losing. Not only within a shoe but even a weekend of gambling. Best advice I ever received is that one should play only with money one can afford to lose.
RESPONSE TO MICHAEL: Loosing $ 3,000 at the MGM. I just returned from Sam’s Town in Tunica, MS and have been counting cards about 12 months. I have found it very profitable. This was my 3rd trip in 12 months to Tunica but I also have been to Biloxi to practice my skill. My first trip out was not a big winner. As I have practiced and experienced the real casino again and again I have never returned a looser.
I also went to Las Vegas in May 2013 and I also played at the MGM. My experience was totally positive. But I enjoyed several casino’s while I was there and each experience was positive. I did not always win – because even a card counter cannot always win but I did come back with more money than I spent. And with never purchasing a meal or paying for a hotel room – I feel the experience was VERY POSITIVE.
Michael, With $ 3,000 I can’t imagine remaining at the same place when I could determine the cards were against me – I suggest you try again.
Bankroll, I always bring at least 40X my minimum unit bet. With 3K, my unit bet would have been $75.00. Why play the 6 deck shoe with that bankroll? With $50 to $75 unit, he could have played a 2 deck BJ with minimum bet of $50 heads up vs the dealer. If I lose 3 hands straight after I just sit, I leave that table, there’s no math to it but just 3 strikes I’m out.I had at one time, lost 9 straight hands! If he has a bankroll of $3K, he could afford to invest in a tutored BJ counting lesson. I don’t know where he had played before but the mirror he was talking about, could have been the mirror peek the dealers check if the they have a natural.
If this guy was for real, the pit boss would have spoiled him; losing 3k in a few minutes, those are the guys they love. They have a live one. They’ll even entice him to come back have and bait the hook with a promised refund on his plane ticket plus a $100.00 slot free play for the wife or girl friend. The Asian dealers are probably more educated than him. I bet you, they probably speak at least 2 languages including English, not counting Mandarin and Cantonese. If he really knew how to count even from books, he would read that 2 decks are better than a 6 decks. I would have loved him to play at my table. The focus would have been on him because he would have a lot of tells that he was counting, and the focus would have been on him.
I love them to play with me at my table. The focus is on them not on me. At break time, the dealers and the bosses exchange stories about those stupid players. You know who I like to most to play at my table? A knock them dead beauty, and I’m not even paying her to sit with me by the hour.
As bad as the 6:5 payout on blackjack is, it’s still far better than doubling down on the blackjack by treating is as an eleven. The 6:5 is a sure thing, but if you double, you might lose or push the hand. You would be amazed how expensive that possibility is. (6:5 pays $12 on a $10 blackjack, while doubling the bet to $20 yields only $6.82 profit on average! That’s a HUGE difference. And that’s assuming the dealer has a 6 up, the best possible scenario.)
It’s time for a blog post on this topic, as I’ve heard quite a few players mention this idea. In the meantime, don’t do it! Growl at the dealer if you must, but let him pay you the 6:5.
As a “Skilled player” according to the casinos in AC, I would have to agree with you about Mr. Third Base taking the dealers break card. Countless times (no pun intended), I have tried to explain to people at the table that the shoe has no memory of who goes in & out at the table. There have been times when at Third base I will wave a hit with a hand five, deuce against the dealers Ten. People look at me in astonishment after the dealer shows 5 in the hole & breaks with a ten. Even if I can put the hole card on a low number, it doesn’t mean I will always prevail. One of my best observations is that everyone wants instant gratification on every hand. My favorite saying to other players flipping out because of non book moves, is to remember that there are no seat belts on the stools.
When gaining an advantage using basic strategy as outlined here, what role does tipping play? I doubt if a player who tips can still have a positive expectation. Thank you, Ken.
A perfect example of this trend. Thanks for the Mirage update.
I have been a dealer for 10years. 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. First, if you play on a table that offers surrender you are throwing your money away. As soon as someone on a table surrenders the whole shoe is ruined. Surrender is the biggest scam in blackjack. Second if you play with someone who doesn’t know when to hit and when not to hit there goes that shoe. NOT THE HAND, THE SHOE! As far as card counting, that might have worked on single shoes but it doesn’t work on 6 deck shoes. As soon as someone makes a mistake in basic stradigy there goes the SHOE. The worse mistake that can be made is to play with someone who does not hit a 16 against the dealers 10. 9. 8 or 7. No worse than splitting face cards. Every mistake a player makes cost the table 3 hands they would have won. It want be the next 3 hands in a row but I guarantee you it will cost you 3 hands for every mistake anyone on the table makes. I have stood back there and studied this game for 10 yrs and I can almost tell you the 3 hands you will lose after a mistake is made. You have to play on a no midshoe entry table. Players jumping in the middle of a shoe kills a shoe. People have no Idea how to play this game. I would say 1 in 100 really know how to play blackjack. Want to win at blackjack? Play heads up on the dealer. Blackjack is a mistake driven game. The more players the more mistakes made. At least heads up with a dealer all you have to worry about are mistakes you make. If you play perfect basic stradegy at best you will beat the dealer on average 7 or 8 more hands in a shoe. I am not a guru trying to sell you anything just 10 long yrs of watching and analizing the game. I am also a player. So listen or not thats how it is.
I disagree with Mike Gunter and this is precisely why listening to dealers is bad business. If the game is square, it doesn’t matter how others play. The cards you still receive are random and a count with basic strategy still applies. Folks all caught up in how others play are too superstitious. But agreed, it’s very frustrating to see mistakes that cost you a hand(s.). But if you really pay attention, those mistakes win you hands also. Cards come out random, how others play have no mathematical affect on the shoe. Enjoy
It’s amazing how many blackjack dealers don’t know how to play blackjack. I hear bad advice given from blackjack dealers all the time. I have been told I made a bad plays when hitting soft 18 vs. a dealers picture card plus hitting 12 against a dealers 3. Just two examples of dealers stupitity. Bernie
using speed count system
stand 16v10
As a veteran blackjack player, I have to agree with Bernie. Dealers generally do not know the finer points of the game. Their knowledge of the game is generally acquired by observing repetitive actions of the players, and as most skilled players know, most players don’t really know how to play the game. Regarding playing with unskilled players, it’s true that you seem to remember how others bad play cost you hands, but I have come to believe that their stupidity will result in an equal number of hands that I win. One thing for sure, it is almost impossible to find a table where all of the players are skilled. Just learn to deal with the fools and have fun.
Since today’s dealers are probably tomorrow’s pit bosses, this is why I think that there will always be beatable blackjack games out there. Let them all think you can’t beat the game. 🙂
I am also interested about the 5 tier sequence and bet ranging strategy.
For the longest time I used to think that bad players prevented me from winning, but it turns out not so much. The thing with bad players is they don’t have as much of an affect on your hand as you like to think. The thing with BJ players is they react to the immediate situation and never think about the long run. All those hands you think drunk guy splitting 10’s cost you will come back to your favor later even though in the moment you are seething. Obviously if you play once a year then these beats seem worse and sting more, but with such a small sample size you’re not going to care what anyone tells you anyways because your recent experiences will ring loudest. I’ve definitely had tables where players played so bad they booted them from the table so once in a while the gods hear you. I never listen to dealers but do pretend I that care about their advice since it seems to make me more personable and gets me further with the pit. I like to act like I don’t know what I want to do when I know exactly what I’m going to do because, unlike Poker, weak is strong is not always a bad thing. I want them to think I’m a not quite an idiot but a weak player who leans on the casino a little bit. I don’t win all the time, but I always have fun..otherwise why play???
The above statements are all interesting. I like a table where I am confortable and prefer players who are good because it seems to lift the leveal of play. Card counting, even speed counting is mentally taxing after a few hours. Generally it is best to ignore all comments and concentrate on your playing. Gambling, especially blackjack, is a mathematical
experience so stay with some form of perfect strategy. Most people, including dealers, are not familiar with probabilities so their advice, mo matter how sincere,must be considered suspect.
Randomness is often misunderstook because it includes streaks of winning and losing. Not only within a shoe but even a weekend of gambling. Best advice I ever received is that one should play only with money one can afford to lose.
RESPONSE TO MICHAEL: Loosing $ 3,000 at the MGM.
I just returned from Sam’s Town in Tunica, MS and have been counting cards about 12 months.
I have found it very profitable. This was my 3rd trip in 12 months to Tunica but I also have been to Biloxi to practice my skill. My first trip out was not a big winner. As I have practiced and experienced the real casino again and again I have never returned a looser.
I also went to Las Vegas in May 2013 and I also played at the MGM. My experience was totally positive. But I enjoyed several casino’s while I was there and each experience was positive. I did not always win – because even a card counter cannot always win but I did come back with more money than I spent. And with never purchasing a meal or paying for a hotel room – I feel the experience was VERY POSITIVE.
Michael, With $ 3,000 I can’t imagine remaining at the same place when I could determine the cards were against me – I suggest you try again.
Look I am not a huge card player and I have the opinion that the house always wins. But I will give your tips a go and let you know how I fared.
Bankroll, I always bring at least 40X my minimum unit bet. With 3K, my unit bet would have been $75.00. Why play the 6 deck shoe with that bankroll? With $50 to $75 unit, he could have played a 2 deck BJ with minimum bet of $50 heads up vs the dealer. If I lose 3 hands straight after I just sit, I leave that table, there’s no math to it but just 3 strikes I’m out.I had at one time, lost 9 straight hands! If he has a bankroll of $3K, he could afford to invest in a tutored BJ counting lesson.
I don’t know where he had played before but the mirror he was talking about, could have been the mirror peek the dealers check if the they have a natural.
If this guy was for real, the pit boss would have spoiled him; losing 3k in a few minutes, those are the guys they love. They have a live one. They’ll even entice him to come back have and bait the hook with a promised refund on his plane ticket plus a $100.00 slot free play for the wife or girl friend. The Asian dealers are probably more educated than him. I bet you, they probably speak at least 2 languages including English, not counting Mandarin and Cantonese. If he really knew how to count even from books, he would read that 2 decks are better than a 6 decks. I would have loved him to play at my table. The focus would have been on him because he would have a lot of tells that he was counting, and the focus would have been on him.
That’s how I play it: 2 hit; 3 stand. A small edge but it’s an edge.
I love them to play with me at my table. The focus is on them not on me. At break time, the dealers and the bosses exchange stories about those stupid players. You know who I like to most to play at my table? A knock them dead beauty, and I’m not even paying her to sit with me by the hour.
When playing 6:5 blackjack payoffs chose to play the blackjack as an eleven and double.
As bad as the 6:5 payout on blackjack is, it’s still far better than doubling down on the blackjack by treating is as an eleven. The 6:5 is a sure thing, but if you double, you might lose or push the hand. You would be amazed how expensive that possibility is. (6:5 pays $12 on a $10 blackjack, while doubling the bet to $20 yields only $6.82 profit on average! That’s a HUGE difference. And that’s assuming the dealer has a 6 up, the best possible scenario.)
It’s time for a blog post on this topic, as I’ve heard quite a few players mention this idea. In the meantime, don’t do it! Growl at the dealer if you must, but let him pay you the 6:5.
Ken,
As a “Skilled player” according to the casinos in AC, I would have to agree with you about Mr. Third Base taking the dealers break card. Countless times (no pun intended), I have tried to explain to people at the table that the shoe has no memory of who goes in & out at the table. There have been times when at Third base I will wave a hit with a hand five, deuce against the dealers Ten. People look at me in astonishment after the dealer shows 5 in the hole & breaks with a ten. Even if I can put the hole card on a low number, it doesn’t mean I will always prevail. One of my best observations is that everyone wants instant gratification on every hand. My favorite saying to other players flipping out because of non book moves, is to remember that there are no seat belts on the stools.
When gaining an advantage using basic strategy as outlined here, what role does tipping play? I doubt if a player who tips can still have a positive expectation.
Thank you, Ken.