'Dice Control' Denounced

N

noman

Member
Lesson One:

Laws of motion:
1st law:
....an object in motion will do so with constant speed along a STRAIGHT line.

2nd law:

Acceleration(speed of toss) X Mass(dice) equals (F) Force.

3rd law:

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Subset to Law Two:

For two or more interacting particles (dice) Acceleration(speed of toss) X Mass (die) equals (F) Force is applied distinctly to each particle (die)

Enough for now, back to the bottle. Hope all can see how really complicated this will get. Cause we haven't factored trajectory or distance or a number of other variables, yet. Yet, practice makes perfect hey.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
noman said:
so with indulgence and perhaps a time of sobriety I'll concoct a half assed proof of dice control possibility, without having read or paid attention to the proponents theory. It may take a while, cause many of the physical attributes to perfect control involve rocket science. And oh, I'm no rocket scientist either.
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Why bother? Without being a rocket scientist, do you think you could actually prove or disprove anything? :confused: :grin: Just teasin' ya. :grin:

The reason why I throw that out there is because you seem to have quite a bit of strong feelings on this topic, and I seriously doubt that anyone here is going to bother earnestly rebutting your rants. Just trying to save you a few keystrokes, but hey, it's your sobriety time.

good luck :joker:
 
Jack_Black

Jack_Black

Well-Known Member
noman said:
Laws of motion:
1st law:
....an object in motion will do so with constant speed along a STRAIGHT line.

2nd law:

Acceleration(speed of toss) X Mass(dice) equals (F) Force.

3rd law:

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Subset to Law Two:

For two or more interacting particles (dice) Acceleration(speed of toss) X Mass (die) equals (F) Force is applied distinctly to each particle (die)

Enough for now, back to the bottle. Hope all can see how really complicated this will get. Cause we haven't factored trajectory or distance or a number of other variables, yet. Yet, practice makes perfect hey.
Click to expand...

this doesn't prove or disprove anything about the theory of dice control. All it shows is that you know how to use google for Newton's laws. as a matter of fact, these high school physics, day 1, lesson 1 concepts can be applied to blackjack, yet they have little to do with gaining or not gaining an edge at the game.

homework for you:
Google, angles of incidence/reflectance, degrees of freedom, pitch, yaw, roll.

all part of fluid dynamics.
 
N

noman

Member
Well Jack

I prefer not to google or Wikopedea knowledge. I would have gotten to advanced theory or accepted law. And may or may not continue. But as Chef suggested, the bottle may be an even better alternative to trying to discuss,(debate) an inane concept. As far as high school knowledge or concepts, what would BJ be without Thorpe. There's always a foundation. Hey. Cheers. And you cannot equate BJ, which is probability based and not motion, fluid or otherwise.
 
N

noman

Member
And oh hey Chef:

Sorry if it seems like a rant. I don't like rants. Verbal, or animal. I guess my German/Limbuagh absurdity didn't register.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
No need for apology, noman...this site is all about free discussion of BJ and other games of chance.

AP craps will probably continue to be a widely-dismissed approach, for good reason. Sure, the mechanics sound feasible, but the execution is improbable because of all it entails. Right? :joker:
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
My best-ever crap session happened moments after my first BJ back-off.
It was nearly 20 yrs ago and I was not yet playing BJ professionally.
I was at the RENO Hilton. Staying there too.
I was actually in RENO to compete in the Nevada State Backgammon Championships at The Peppermill.

So ... I was down about $1,200 at a marginal BJ table.
I am told that my BJ action is no longer wanted.
That was very first time being backed-off.
I had no experience with that and so I found myself sputtering.
"Oh ? Can I play dice? Is that O.K.?"
I walked up to a Craps Table - which offered, if memory serves, just double odds.

I held the dice for a while. In retrospect, I'd say about 40 minutes.
They refused to raise the limits for me. The cap was $1,000
I cashed out ahead $45,000 There were NO black or purple chips.
It took two security guards to carry 44 chip racks filled with green to the cashier. I took the cash. I did not stop smiling for several days.

While 'killing time' procrastinating, waiting for my limo to transport me to the airport, I am walking about, when I find a pawn shop across the street. I spy a heavy gold ring with 11 diamonds. I take a fancy to it, but I was not about to cough up the $2,000 that they want for it. I walk back across the street and decide that I could afford one measly benjamin to invest at the outdoors crap table that awaits me.

Long story short. I bet $25 and take the odds. I win and I parlay my bets and in a matter of minutes I have cashed out for a $2,000 profit. First stop is the cage. A minute later I am at the Pawn Shop.

I wore that watch until last summer, when I used some bad judgement to fall asleep in my Atlantic City suite after enjoying the company of someone I would soon regret meeting. I was smart enough to place my cash and chips in the room safe; but safeguarding my 'bling' never occurred to me.

Oddly, she took the ring and a nice gold bracelet, but she purposely left the rest of my jewelry. The first night that we had spent together, two weeks prior, went very well. I was lulled into a false sense of security. I was to learn that the cops knew (of) her and have spent years trying to catch the canny hustler.

My homeowner's insurance policy had a $500 limit on personal property [away from home]. Not the worth the risk of my loving spouse unearthing the tawdry contents of the police report. She never noticed the absence of my jewelry. Too obsessed with playing poker I think.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
FLASH, whether 20 years ago or today that's BIG MONEY! :whip: And one hell of a story about the lady...wife never found out?!?

Good hearin' from you, FLASH.
 
Jack_Black

Jack_Black

Well-Known Member
noman said:
And you cannot equate BJ, which is probability based and not motion, fluid or otherwise.
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For shits and giggles.


2nd law
different dealers deal cards at different speeds. If a quick dealer delivers a card weighing 1gram with an acceleration of 10m/sec, the card will hit the felt with a force of .01 Newton-meters.

3rd law
There is an energy return from the card hitting the felt which can be experienced through the audible snapping sound which occurs.

yet it has nothing to do with gaining an edge at BJ. likewise, making these calculations can do nothing to gain and edge at craps. hence, check out fluid dynamics to understand what calculations need to be made in order to gain the theoretical edge.
 
N

noman

Member
Failure to communicate:

My previous posts in this thread were dead set against any kind of dice control.
I intended to be pretty much totally absurd using the formulas. Something I thought someone using a pseudonym of a pretty outrageously absurd real life persona would readily catch. But again, I'll fade away from this with "a failure to communicate." Good Fortune to you.
 
P

pogostick

Well-Known Member
Pogos secret dice control

DANG! I guess pogo will give up his secret of dice control. On the come out ,hold 5 & 6 for a 7 also may produce a horn number, so always bet horn on the come out & always parlay the horn . After the number has been established ,place 6&8 . Hold dice with 3s in a V shape & throw level & easy. I may have posted this valuable info somewhere . Come on now! you know you are going to try it LOL POGO
 
metronome

metronome

Well-Known Member
noman said:
My previous posts in this thread were dead set against any kind of dice control.
I intended to be pretty much totally absurd using the formulas. Something I thought someone using a pseudonym of a pretty outrageously absurd real life persona would readily catch. But again, I'll fade away from this with "a failure to communicate." Good Fortune to you.
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noman, don't fade away, you've been here a long time, but only 25 +,- posts.
speak up sir !...more often.:)
 
B

BrianCP

Well-Known Member
Well, after reading this thread and others about the whole concept of dice control, I've decided to go for it. I'm always looking for an advantage I can aquire, I don't have anything to lose at this point in my life, so I might as well just see if I can do it over a period of months of practice at home with a craps getup recording my results.

Step 1: Buy Wong on Dice. I looked at multiple books (reviews) on craps today, all the reviews ended up reflecting this thread so much that I just decided to go with the name I know and trust (well, kind of trust I suppose)

Step 2:


Step 3: PROFIT! (I couldn't resist)


Back on topic, I'll keep a log of my results after making a home craps rig with all of the essentials (casino dice, pyramid foam, felt with cushioning, etc...) over a large number of throws. I'll keep you guys updated in my signature probably.

Well, wish me luck (it won't matter in the long run any way) !
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
getwellboss said:
It's top secret apparently. haha.

maybe it's practice?
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:laugh: Yeah, damn well better be! :laugh: Otherwise, what will chucking a pair of dice 10,000 times into a box tell ya?
 
B

BrianCP

Well-Known Member
ChefJJ said:
:laugh: Yeah, damn well better be! :laugh: Otherwise, what will chucking a pair of dice 10,000 times into a box tell ya?
Click to expand...
I should have known you guys don't know anything about Southpark, even the classic Underpants Gnome episode.

I will explain for ye olden timers! In this episode, a new character named tweak (who everyone thinks is crazy) claims that at 3 in the morning, gnomes sneak into his room and steal his underpants.

It turns out, he is actually right. They follow the gnomes back to their base, where the gnomes outline their business plan. It goes as follows:

Step 1: Steal Underwear

Step 2:

Step 3: Profit!


Whenever questioned about phase two, they merely list the steps in order, "Step 1, steal underwear. Step 2......Step 3 Profit!"


A classic.
 
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