'Dice Control' Denounced

[ChefJJ]

lets say i drew a arrow facing north on the 6 ,4 ,1 and 3 , if i threw the dice and for it to be in the same axis when landing i need to see the arrows facing north on either the 6,4,1,3 is that correct?

if i see the arrow but its not facing north lets say east or west that means its not on the same axis?

For the most part, yes. That sounds like a good exercize in following the dice as they travel. Understanding that the 5 & 2 are on the rotational axis, you can use them to determine beginning and end positions as well, without the arrows.

The reason why I advocate that one develop your concentration on the dice as they travel is because some results are not always as they appear. Some that end up on-axis may have taken a random path to get there (not "truly" on-axis), while some that appear to end up off-axis have actually delivered an on-axis result (e.g. when the diamond wall rejected the dice in such a way like a top spins).

The last paragraph is a bit advanced, if you will...a result of studying the dice themselves and using video playback on my dice table. Some things may be tough to look for in real-time when you don't know what you are looking for, but effective practice can help you concentrate. An effective practice doesn't mean chucking dice for hours on end...it means taking away useful information after each session (practice or live casino), even if it was only a 15-minute segment.

good luck

 

[Katweezel]

Lowdown

ChefJJ, On a normal casino craps day for you, do you bet only on yourself, and only when you are the thrower, or do you bet on other throwers, while you wait for your turn again. If so, how do you figure who else is worth betting on? :cat:

 

[ChefJJ]

ChefJJ, On a normal casino craps day for you, do you bet only on yourself, and only when you are the thrower, or do you bet on other throwers, while you wait for your turn again. If so, how do you figure who else is worth betting on? :cat:

I seek out less populated tables so I get more reps, but I do make wagers on other players "irregularly". How? I act superstitiously (as a true gambler would ) when the table is "cooling off" or "cool". But when I do wager on other non-APs, it's a simple Pass w/ minimal Odds or Place 6 & 8.

I don't "qualify" shooters or wait for a magical point in the dice hand to jump in...pure voodoo, even if some experts are proponents of it. :flame:

good luck

 

[Katweezel]

The Entertainer

I seek out less populated tables so I get more reps, but I do make wagers on other players "irregularly". How? I act superstitiously (as a true gambler would ) when the table is "cooling off" or "cool". But when I do wager on other non-APs, it's a simple Pass w/ minimal Odds or Place 6 & 8.

I don't "qualify" shooters or wait for a magical point in the dice hand to jump in...pure voodoo, even if some experts are proponents of it. :flame:

good luck

One so-called expert who is a proponent of it, has written extensively about it, and may well be planning his 876th or thereabouts, book. He would appear to be accomplished at tapping into the herd voodoo vein, which for him, has been the mother-lode. lol

Just as a point of interest Chef, are you a very vocal shooter; one who is loudly exhorting the dice to do this or that, in a theatrical kind of way, or would you be more of the silent assassin type - with equally deadly (for the shop) results... Do you practice this at home as well, as maybe part of eh, the show? These kind of shows can be highly entertaining for the whole table, and some shooters like to be the entertainer, I guess... if they can carry it. :cat:

 

[ChefJJ]

Katweezel,

Craps players are typically verrrry superstitious...so a voodoo "qualifier" system is a great sell to players. Of course, many think that AP Craps play through the manipulation of the dice's probabliities is voodoo too, but it's all about perspective I guess.

I don't put on a show at the casino or at home :joker: I'm just another guy at the table with some good luck

 

[Katweezel]

Superstitious sayings

Katweezel,

Craps players are typically verrrry superstitious...so a voodoo "qualifier" system is a great sell to players. Of course, many think that AP Craps play through the manipulation of the dice's probabliities is voodoo too, but it's all about perspective I guess.

I don't put on a show at the casino or at home :joker: I'm just another guy at the table with some good luck

Hey ChefJJ, All those verrry superstitious craps players out there I guess can be entertaining, like all those supertitious Blackjack players. You hear the same stuff over and over about taking the dealer bust card, somebody's gotta take a hit for the table, the 2 is the dealer ace and the like. What are some of the usual superstitious sayings you often hear at the craps table? Cheers mate. :cat:

 

[ChefJJ]

The 7 seems to be the topic of many craps players' superstitions.

good luck

 

[takinfromindians97]

i Also am an AP craps player and i myself have held the dice for more then a half hour regularly, all the while making the points i need and rolling the numbers i play. I have even been able to roll repeated hardways sets on demand only when i put money on it or ocasionally for someone who is betting big. You would be surprised how much money i make by winning high rollers alot of money (they tip real well if you score them a good half hour of money making rolls and no 7s).
Also someone asked about betting on other shooters. The way i usually do it is the 5 roll rule, I play the pass line minimum while i watch them and let them roll 5 times then i usually will play the 6 and 8 and odds on the pass line,also sometimes i will bet the come on a random shooter. Alot of times you will see the shooter make a point only to seven out a roll maybe two rolls later, the five roll rule sometimes helps you save some money by avoiding spreading your money out there just to have the shooter seven out.This also gives you time to watch the shooter usually if you know how to throw them you can spot someone who can shoot, then you know to watch his bets and load up when he does.
Another thing is pressing, i never press on other shooters only on myself and only after i hit a number 3 times will i start to press it. Trust me when i tell you folks controling the cubes is very profitable, there are people on this forum who have watched me roll and actually made good money betting on me so its no bullshit, its just a ton ton of practice and very good hand eye corrdination. Basically its muscle memory, perfect a throw and do it over and over and over until its perfect and second nature to do, then learn to adjust for table conditions, thats all

 

[UncrownedKing]

takinfromindians97,

Can you give any advice to beginners? Or point to advice?

Even a PM would be helpful if you don't want to expose anything.

 

[nightspirit]

dice control

I didn't believe this stuff until I saw it with my own eyes! :yikes:

 

[takinfromindians97]

Track your tosses

Hey there is a site for all you AP craps players in which you ccan keep track of your tosses, and it will figure your SRR for you and a bunch of other little statistics which can help you with your progress in craps.I have used this for a while now to record my throws, you can save everything under your name with a free account. The site is very easy to use you literally point and click on what was rolled it has a hardway or easy option, it really is a great tool.
THE SITE IS
(Dead link: http://www.dicecoach.com/tosstrack)

 

[ragroller]

do the dice MUST "bounce" and hit the wall? or can it roll on the table then hit the wall? so lets say u throw and make it land furthur back from the wall then roll/ little bounce to the back wall , would that count as a throw?

 

[ChefJJ]

do the dice MUST "bounce" and hit the wall? or can it roll on the table then hit the wall? so lets say u throw and make it land furthur back from the wall then roll/ little bounce to the back wall , would that count as a throw?

I've never personally seen it not count.

Don't be that guy who line drives them off the back wall. :flame::joker:

good luck

 

[takinfromindians97]

hit the wall anyway

do the dice MUST "bounce" and hit the wall? or can it roll on the table then hit the wall? so lets say u throw and make it land furthur back from the wall then roll/ little bounce to the back wall , would that count as a throw?

Yes its fine as long as they leave your hand and at some time hit the wall.The actual correct way to throw a controled toss or at least the way i learned is for them to bounce a little past the pass line and gently glance off the wall where it should come to rest only a bounce or two later.

 

[ragroller]

if thats the case wouldnt it be better to throw the dice low and a bit furthur away from the wall so it can roll or maybe even slide and hit the back wall? rather than making it bounce to the back wall and the dice will have to drop from a higher height?


what happens if u throw the dice on an angle so it lands on the very edge of the dice an when it does hit the back wall slightly it will "cup" into the the back wall and fall?

throwing the dice with the face hitting the wall theres so many angles for it to make the dice go random , but if its on an angle and cups into the back wall it will be less wouldnt it?

 

[ragroller]

opinions to my post above?

 

[ChefJJ]

Opinion

Rag,

I'd be careful in producing any type of sliding with the dice...it's cheating.

But as for the rest of your concept, I personally like what you're talking about: the low roll. On most tables that I play on these days, there is some sort of padding that makes the high-arc flop throw not as feasible at it used to.

So my trajectory is definitely lower, and this gives me a better chance of one of the following desirable results: 1) dice dying at the wall base, or 2) dice rebounding off the bottom of the pyramids on the back wall.

This is a difficult subject to hash out via words on a message board, but it does make sense. I've "gone to the tape" of my practice sessions on my table and have watched the dice react in either of these manners, returning the dice on-axis. And that's my goal. :joker:

good luck

 

[sneakykid]

Are you suppose to have backspin on the dice?

 

[ChefJJ]

Are you suppose to have backspin on the dice?

I think that's a matter of personal preference and the condition of the table (bouncy, moderate, or hard).

My rule of thumb says to use more arc and backspin on hard tables and a softly running low arc on bouncy ones. Moderate tables deserve something in between, if not tending towards less arc and a little run.

good luck

 

[Katweezel]

Reserved craps table

Hey Chef, In RingyDingy's Vegas trip report, he says a guy in MGM reserved a craps table. Does this happen in AC?