I usually keep a low profile...

[blackjackomaha]

...but tonight, I received some additional attention. I don't believe my play was compromised, but definitely found myself on the shift PB's radar.

So, I finished playing for a few hours and had a good session. The night was going well. I took a quick break and when I came back, all $25 tables were full.

I decided to wong at a table adjacent to where I was playing earlier. It was one of those nights where it didn't matter what the players did, the dealer busted. Most players were betting $25-$150, except for an extremely arrogant older man (60's-ish) betting $500-$2000. This older man was, for lack of a betting word, "coaching" the others...and sometimes hesitant on his own plays. Looking back, I know I should have kept my mouth shut, but I felt bad for the guy.

His chips started piling up, probably a good $15k. He had a sizable bet when he was dealt 3,3 vs. dealer 4. He appeared upset and very hesitant. I suggested he split his threes...in a very non-demanding way. This man, now angrier and shocked that someone had the nerve to suggest how to play his hand, snapped "No wonder you're only watching this table, no person in their right mind would split 3,3 against a 4. Are you crazy?"

In a confident, yet understanding tone, I said "No, not crazy. I figured you would want to make the correct play". The entire table seemed agitated by my remark. A middle aged woman argued "Don't tell him what to do, he's an expert. He's much better than you could ever hope to be." Pleased by this mindless peon's remark, the old man begins to berate me..."Your generation pisses me off. I have no problem with you watching, but when you get jealous of how I'm making money and attempt to screw my hand up, it shows how uninformed you are. You'll never amount to anything."

I stood there with a smile on my face, attempting to contain my laughter. "It's your money, I just figured you'd know better if you're an expert." He proceeded to hit, and received a 6 and stood. Of course, the dealer busted. Proudly collecting his wins, the old man calls the pit boss over "Get rid of this dirt bag, he's interfering with my play and pissing everyone off. I don't want him watching my table."

Naturally, due to the high dollar amounts this asshole was betting, the pit boss runs over and has a few words with the old man, glaring at me the entire time. Seconds later, the pit boss walks up besides me, grabs my arm and says "you need to leave this area." I became extremely frustrated, but kept my emotions under control...not wanting to escalate things further (they had already escalated beyond anything I thought would happen). I told the pit boss "I'll gladly move to a different area. However, if you don't release my arm, and if you touch me again, I will call the police and have you charged with assault."

Smartly, the pit boss releases his grip and says "I don't want you near his table. You can watch or play at any other table, but please don't disturb him." Again, in a polite, yet confident tone I reassured him "It's unfortunate how some players overreact. I have no problem leaving this area. I only wish I could be around when he gives his chips back." The pit boss left when I sat at the next table. I ended up leaving a few minutes later, hoping to minimize additional unwanted attention.

I understand I'm supposed to "keep my cool" and not let anything these ploppies say get to me, but this time, it did. I'm glad I resisted further escalating the situation; however, I didn't expect events to unfold as they did. I'll continue working to block out anything and everything others' say - it just comes with the territory.

Thanks for listening.

 

[MangoJ]

You should be grateful to this man, as he (and any other gambler) is funding your profits.

 

[kewljason]

...but tonight, I received some additional attention. I don't believe my play was compromised, but definitely found myself on the shift PB's radar.

So, I finished playing for a few hours and had a good session. The night was going well. I took a quick break and when I came back, all $25 tables were full.

I decided to wong at a table adjacent to where I was playing earlier. It was one of those nights where it didn't matter what the players did, the dealer busted. Most players were betting $25-$150, except for an extremely arrogant older man (60's-ish) betting $500-$2000. This older man was, for lack of a betting word, "coaching" the others...and sometimes hesitant on his own plays. Looking back, I know I should have kept my mouth shut, but I felt bad for the guy.

His chips started piling up, probably a good $15k. He had a sizable bet when he was dealt 3,3 vs. dealer 4. He appeared upset and very hesitant. I suggested he split his threes...in a very non-demanding way. This man, now angrier and shocked that someone had the nerve to suggest how to play his hand, snapped "No wonder you're only watching this table, no person in their right mind would split 3,3 against a 4. Are you crazy?"

In a confident, yet understanding tone, I said "No, not crazy. I figured you would want to make the correct play". The entire table seemed agitated by my remark. A middle aged woman argued "Don't tell him what to do, he's an expert. He's much better than you could ever hope to be." Pleased by this mindless peon's remark, the old man begins to berate me..."Your generation pisses me off. I have no problem with you watching, but when you get jealous of how I'm making money and attempt to screw my hand up, it shows how uninformed you are. You'll never amount to anything."

I stood there with a smile on my face, attempting to contain my laughter. "It's your money, I just figured you'd know better if you're an expert." He proceeded to hit, and received a 6 and stood. Of course, the dealer busted. Proudly collecting his wins, the old man calls the pit boss over "Get rid of this dirt bag, he's interfering with my play and pissing everyone off. I don't want him watching my table."

Naturally, due to the high dollar amounts this asshole was betting, the pit boss runs over and has a few words with the old man, glaring at me the entire time. Seconds later, the pit boss walks up besides me, grabs my arm and says "you need to leave this area." I became extremely frustrated, but kept my emotions under control...not wanting to escalate things further (they had already escalated beyond anything I thought would happen). I told the pit boss "I'll gladly move to a different area. However, if you don't release my arm, and if you touch me again, I will call the police and have you charged with assault."

Smartly, the pit boss releases his grip and says "I don't want you near his table. You can watch or play at any other table, but please don't disturb him." Again, in a polite, yet confident tone I reassured him "It's unfortunate how some players overreact. I have no problem leaving this area. I only wish I could be around when he gives his chips back." The pit boss left when I sat at the next table. I ended up leaving a few minutes later, hoping to minimize additional unwanted attention.

I understand I'm supposed to "keep my cool" and not let anything these ploppies say get to me, but this time, it did. I'm glad I resisted further escalating the situation; however, I didn't expect events to unfold as they did. I'll continue working to block out anything and everything others' say - it just comes with the territory.

Thanks for listening.

Discipline, my friend. Unless you were hoping to buy one of his hands there is absolutely no good that can come from saying anything. Except rare situations that are just too good to pass up, I am not a scavenger type player, as I think it draws additional attention. So I mainly 'observe' other peoples play. I rarely comment on anything. I just don't see much advantage of comments or advise. And as you just experienced, there can be a downside. Players can stand on 2,3 for all I care. Actually if the count is high, I would prefer that they did. :laugh: I have seen a player stand on his AA. He said he didn't want to split cause you only get one card and he always gets little cards. He didn't want to hit because he could bust. I guess he was worried about drawing the dreaded '20' card. :laugh: Anyway the count was pretty high, so it seemed like a good move to (for) me.

 

[Canceler]

Basic rule: Don't mess with the whales.

 

[moo321]

I really would never comment on a hand if I'm not on the table. If I'm on the table, I do give advice sometimes to speed the game up. Others disagree, but I'd rather tell a guy to go ahead and split just to keep it moving.

Also, threatening the pit boss was -ev. The only time I'd do this was if I got a hand put on me for an AP play. This guy was trying to protect his high roller. It just made you an unnecessary enemy.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

If anyone comments on my play, I handle them with kid gloves if they are playing. If they are not playing, those gloves come off. If you are perched for a wong in, just STFU.

 

[psyduck]

People in casinos have all kinds of mindset

I am a red chipper. Once I went to the high stake area of my local casino to take a quick look. One table had only one guy playing there. I stood by briefly. The guy asked me if I wanted to play. I said no. He said if you don't play, you cannot watch. I said why. He said it's the rule. I said show me the rule. He could not. So he asked the floor person for help. She said if he does't want you to watch, you have to leave. I left without saying one more word.

Another time I was Wonging in and out. When I was ready to enter a table, the woman dealer told me she didn't like me to play at her table. The reason was whenever I played at her table, everyone lost and they all blamed her. I sat down and said they could blame me. That was the only time so far I got blamed by a dealer!

 

[Solo player]

I really would never comment on a hand if I'm not on the table. If I'm on the table, I do give advice sometimes to speed the game up. Others disagree, but I'd rather tell a guy to go ahead and split just to keep it moving.

Also, threatening the pit boss was -ev. The only time I'd do this was if I got a hand put on me for an AP play. This guy was trying to protect his high roller. It just made you an unnecessary enemy.

Just watching a game I would never ever give advice on how to play a hand.

I say as little as possible about how others play there hand when playing at a table. But when some players aren't sure what to do and are asking the dealer, and the dealer or player look to me for a suggestion I may tell them something like "If it was me I would do such and such." And even then only if I new the player would not blow a gasket if he loses the hand. If your not sure your better off to just zip it.

 

[Thunder]

One thing I've learned is never give advice on a -EV hand for them. They'll blame you more often than not when you suggest they hit a 15 vs. the dealer 10 and they lose. They're ploppies for a reason..

 

[blackjackomaha]

Live and learn

For as much commotion that my comment caused, I was genuinely trying to help. I was rooting for the guy to clean out the tray, regardless of his skill level. Yeah, obviously I've learned my lesson and won't utter a word to anyone else without being spoken to first.

Honestly though, it has been my experience that such comments on plays, at least in my location, aren't usually met with such hostility. If a crowd gathers around a table, players and bystanders all comment on plays and enjoy the interaction - especially if the table is "winning". If someone doesn't agree with advice, they have usually said something along the lines of "Yeah, I think I'm still going to [insert play here]." I've been on the receiving end of comments before, as I'm sure all of you have, and enjoy listening to what others say, regardless if they are right. I only get agitated if the commenter is overbearing and forceful...traits I choose not to exhibit.

Anyway, after I calmed down a bit and "put myself in his shoes," I can see why he, or anyone else, would get upset...despite me doing my best to sound helpful. However, I do think he greatly overreacted. But as I said, I've learned my lesson and can only apply what I learned to future play.

 

[creeping panther]

confrontations

First off I will never give advice, usually, even if asked, which is frequent,,,I will not comment on others plays, and you sure had better not comment on mine. If a player thinks he is so smart at the game and wants to give me nice advice, I accept it with a kind remark, as it is usually amusing.

I recently was on a 6 spot table with 5 other players, all but one in their 50's or 60's, the young guy was about 23.

The 50 something came in mid shoe without asking and this I did not like, I also didn't like how he came across, looked, whatever, he made me unhappy.

At one point the young man has 10,10, dealer a 3, and he really wants to split, the other gents say "no, no",!!,,,he insists and looks at me, I say "hey man, go for it, no problem here", negative count, but he really wanted to do it, and I wanted to see these other players reaction, because I did not like most of them,,,just me,,:laugh:,,,so he splits 3 times gets a 20 and 19, and 15, the table moans, dealer draws to 21,,,,oh,,oh,,:laugh::laugh:. The table, all except me, begins to berate this youg guy,,,big time, I think enough and come to his aid and I begin to tell the other players what I think of them "running their mouths", it gets rather heated and I am having fun, and ready to throw down then and there if they like, and then the dealer calls an end to the battle.:grin:

A little while later I decide to double my 12 against a dealer six, I wanted to get into it again with these guys, have them try coming at me this time, dealer yells out very loud, "doubling hard 12 against 6", then the Azz next to me moans, the 50ish guy, then dealer flips me a 9, then busts, I say to the Azz, "did you want to say something to me"???, he says "no".

When the others finally leave the table all but one apologizes to the young gent, I am vindicated,, and when I finally leave he shakes my hand and thanks me profusely for coming to his aid.

So Omaha, when you are at the table, sh#t happens, and you may decide to react, when watching, remain quiet,,,,I know you now realize this and I know you will not make the same mistake twice.

My Best,
CP

 

[kewljason]

First off I will never give advice, usually, even if asked, which is frequent,,,I will not comment on others plays, and you sure had better not comment on mine. If a player thinks he is so smart at the game and wants to give me nice advice, I accept it with a kind remark, as it is usually amusing.

I recently was on a 6 spot table with 5 other players, all but one in their 50's or 60's, the young guy was about 23.

The 50 something came in mid shoe without asking and this I did not like, I also didn't like how he came across, looked, whatever, he made me unhappy.

At one point the young man has 10,10, dealer a 3, and he really wants to split, the other gents say "no, no",!!,,,he insists and looks at me, I say "hey man, go for it, no problem here", negative count, but he really wanted to do it, and I wanted to see these other players reaction, because I did not like most of them,,,just me,,:laugh:,,,so he splits 3 times gets a 20 and 19, and 15, the table moans, dealer draws to 21,,,,oh,,oh,,:laugh::laugh:. The table, all except me, begins to berate this youg guy,,,big time, I think enough and come to his aid and I begin to tell the other players what I think of them "running their mouths", it gets rather heated and I am having fun, and ready to throw down then and there if they like, and then the dealer calls an end to the battle.

A little while later I decide to double my 12 against a dealer six, I wanted to get into it again with these guys, have them try coming at me this time, dealer yells out very loud, "doubling hard 12 against 6", then the Azz next to me moans, the 50ish guy, then dealer flips me a 9, then busts, I say to the Azz, "did you want to say something to me"???, he says "no".

When the others finally leave the table all but one apologizes to the young gent, I am vindicated,, and when I finally leave he shakes my hand and thanks me profusely for coming to his aid.

So Omaha, when you are at the table, sh#t happens, and you may decide to react, when watching, remain quiet,,,,I know you now realize this and I know you will not make the same mistake twice.

My Best,
CP

Your behavior seems somewhat bizarre to me. Interesting that you put 'confrontations' in the title line as many of your stories deal with this theme. Many include the element that you are always ready to throw down with someone right there on the casino floor. How many times have you actually done so, or is this just brazen talk.

I like to weigh my decision based on a risk/reward ratio. I am wondering just what is the reward of behavior like you are describing here. I guess since it all seems to be about your amusement, you have satisfied that. Not much reward in my opinion. The risk? Quiet a bit. Ranging from simple drawing attention to yourself, to pissing off some unstable person who you know nothing about, what his situation is or what he is capable of. Perhaps he is financially in a bad way, hoping to dig himself out with this trip to the casino, and now in his mind you cost him that. Half hour later he stabs you in the men's room or shoots you in the back of the head in the parking garage. Wondering if you would still be amused and find the reward worth the risk?

Statements like "I did not like most of them" (referring to other players) and "I wanted to get into it again with these guys" really illustrate bizzare anti-social behavior on your part. You have a strange purpose of what the casinos are for. I go to the casinos to make money. Apparently you go to get into bar brawls.

 

[Sucker]

In Nevada (and probably everywhere else) it's against gaming laws for a casino to disallow spectators at a gaming table or a slot machine. That said; they do it and they get away with it all the time - if someone were to complain they'd just claim that they were barring him for something else. :whip:

 

[farmdoggy]

The risk? Quiet a bit. Ranging from simple drawing attention to yourself, to pissing off some unstable person who you know nothing about, what his situation is or what he is capable of. Perhaps he is financially in a bad way, hoping to dig himself out with this trip to the casino, and now in his mind you cost him that. Half hour later he stabs you in the men's room or shoots you in the back of the head in the parking garage.

Well he did mention they were all in their 50's... I dunno, maybe CP can handle these people? :laugh:

 

[BJgenius007]

...but tonight, I received some additional attention. I don't believe my play was compromised, but definitely found myself on the shift PB's radar.

So, I finished playing for a few hours and had a good session. The night was going well. I took a quick break and when I came back, all $25 tables were full.

I decided to wong at a table adjacent to where I was playing earlier. It was one of those nights where it didn't matter what the players did, the dealer busted. Most players were betting $25-$150, except for an extremely arrogant older man (60's-ish) betting $500-$2000. This older man was, for lack of a betting word, "coaching" the others...and sometimes hesitant on his own plays. Looking back, I know I should have kept my mouth shut, but I felt bad for the guy.

His chips started piling up, probably a good $15k. He had a sizable bet when he was dealt 3,3 vs. dealer 4. He appeared upset and very hesitant. I suggested he split his threes...in a very non-demanding way. This man, now angrier and shocked that someone had the nerve to suggest how to play his hand, snapped "No wonder you're only watching this table, no person in their right mind would split 3,3 against a 4. Are you crazy?"

In a confident, yet understanding tone, I said "No, not crazy. I figured you would want to make the correct play". The entire table seemed agitated by my remark. A middle aged woman argued "Don't tell him what to do, he's an expert. He's much better than you could ever hope to be." Pleased by this mindless peon's remark, the old man begins to berate me..."Your generation pisses me off. I have no problem with you watching, but when you get jealous of how I'm making money and attempt to screw my hand up, it shows how uninformed you are. You'll never amount to anything."

I stood there with a smile on my face, attempting to contain my laughter. "It's your money, I just figured you'd know better if you're an expert." He proceeded to hit, and received a 6 and stood. Of course, the dealer busted. Proudly collecting his wins, the old man calls the pit boss over "Get rid of this dirt bag, he's interfering with my play and pissing everyone off. I don't want him watching my table."

Naturally, due to the high dollar amounts this asshole was betting, the pit boss runs over and has a few words with the old man, glaring at me the entire time. Seconds later, the pit boss walks up besides me, grabs my arm and says "you need to leave this area." I became extremely frustrated, but kept my emotions under control...not wanting to escalate things further (they had already escalated beyond anything I thought would happen). I told the pit boss "I'll gladly move to a different area. However, if you don't release my arm, and if you touch me again, I will call the police and have you charged with assault."

Smartly, the pit boss releases his grip and says "I don't want you near his table. You can watch or play at any other table, but please don't disturb him." Again, in a polite, yet confident tone I reassured him "It's unfortunate how some players overreact. I have no problem leaving this area. I only wish I could be around when he gives his chips back." The pit boss left when I sat at the next table. I ended up leaving a few minutes later, hoping to minimize additional unwanted attention.

I understand I'm supposed to "keep my cool" and not let anything these ploppies say get to me, but this time, it did. I'm glad I resisted further escalating the situation; however, I didn't expect events to unfold as they did. I'll continue working to block out anything and everything others' say - it just comes with the territory.

Thanks for listening.

I never gave advice to people at my table. When asked, I only told them what Basic Strategy says but adds anything could happen in one hand.

 

[creeping panther]

Kj

Your behavior seems somewhat bizarre to me. Interesting that you put 'confrontations' in the title line as many of your stories deal with this theme. Many include the element that you are always ready to throw down with someone right there on the casino floor. How many times have you actually done so, or is this just brazen talk.

I like to weigh my decision based on a risk/reward ratio. I am wondering just what is the reward of behavior like you are describing here. I guess since it all seems to be about your amusement, you have satisfied that. Not much reward in my opinion. The risk? Quiet a bit. Ranging from simple drawing attention to yourself, to pissing off some unstable person who you know nothing about, what his situation is or what he is capable of. Perhaps he is financially in a bad way, hoping to dig himself out with this trip to the casino, and now in his mind you cost him that. Half hour later he stabs you in the men's room or shoots you in the back of the head in the parking garage. Wondering if you would still be amused and find the reward worth the risk?

Statements like "I did not like most of them" (referring to other players) and "I wanted to get into it again with these guys" really illustrate bizzare anti-social behavior on your part. You have a strange purpose of what the casinos are for. I go to the casinos to make money. Apparently you go to get into bar brawls.

KJ,

It is simple to understand, I don't suffer fools, bullys, or those that will dish out disrespect. I don't look for trouble, but I will not run from it, things many may not understand.

As far as not knowing who you may be dealing with,,,the other guy better be wondering that too:devil:

You must admit, the BJ table has a tendency to get very rough at times,,,just part of the thrill.

CP

 

[creeping panther]

doggy

Well he did mention they were all in their 50's... I dunno, maybe CP can handle these people? :laugh:

Well, Doggy, I am close to 61:laugh:

CP

 

[kewljason]

KJ,
You must admit, the BJ table has a tendency to get very rough at times,,,just part of the thrill.
CP

Sorry. Not familiar with blackjack table getting 'rough'. If you are speaking of unpleasant people, sure, there are some as in all aspects of life. I ignore them and move on. To pay them any mind at all only empowers them.

If you get a thrill out of fighting at a blackjack table, so be it.

 

[rookie789]

Cool Kewl

Although I rarely post here yet proficient using the KO unbalanced count, I'm a daily observer and appreciate your thoughful well written posts.

Your thoughts regarding CP's aggressive behavior at the table are spot on, a true AP in my opinion would not bring attention to himself in such a manner.

Also, CP must either be a monster big SOB or carry weapons into casinos as tough as he presents himself.

 

[kewljason]

Although I rarely post here yet proficient using the KO unbalanced count, I'm a daily observer and appreciate your thoughful well written posts.

Your thoughts regarding CP's aggressive behavior at the table are spot on, a true AP in my opinion would not bring attention to himself in such a manner.

Also, CP must either be a monster big SOB or carry weapons into casinos as tough as he presents himself.

I don't know CP and haven't seen his play. I am not trying to judge him, just going by his posts. People have told me he is a really nice guy. Perhaps he is just exaggerating a bit for effect. Just doesn't seem like that type of behavior is conducive to advantage play.

And thank you for the compliment about posts. I appreciate that.