luck

[sagefr0g]

i can't make sense of variance or standard deviation

Here is Bootlegger's definition of variance:

Variance. "This can be determined by subtracting the expected value from each possible outcome in a game or hand, squaring the differences and multiplying each square by its probability of occurring and then summing the total of the product."
Sage, In your recent, excellent Synopsis on Luck, you failed to mention the dreaded word, variance. Congratulations.

yeah well thanks a lot Weezely Cat one, now you have me realizing that i don't think i even know what the heck any of that stuff is, ie. standard deviation and variance.
i think i know what expected value is. it's kind of abstract but i think i get what it is.
what's easy for me to understand is results. something that actually happened. and those results when you record them you can see how they present in some kind of distribution of differing results but where a distribution of those results lots of those differing results are identical to one another and repeated when they present sort of thing.
when you run a simulation you get a whole bunch of results data. and what i think happens is the expected value results is gonna be represented by the biggest pile of data realized that has identical numerical values, where it would be in terms of win rate say dollars per hand or units per hand or dollars per round or units per round, or dollar per hour or units per hour. since that pile of results is the biggest pile we say that represents expected value, EV. the tricky thing being is this EV pile is related to the advantage that you enjoy or don't enjoy as the case may be. reason being is that advantage, that ever present (over time) influence drives the probability of that result happening to the greatest extent for all of the silly reasons makes that event the most likely thing to happen while other events are less likely to happen by various degrees.
then you got a bunch of other groups of data, where within each of those groups the numerical values are identical. but those groups make smaller piles than the big daddy expected value pile. and as it turns out i guess by decree of the blackjack god's these lesser piles are if you line them up by size of the pile and place them on the left of the EV pile if their numerical value is less than the EV pile and if you put them on the right of the EV pile if their numerical value is more than the EV pile then you get this really nifty bell curve looking thing.
but if your gonna say the big pile is the most expected result then your gonna want to classify these pesky lesser piles some way. to me they are just lesser expected results but results that happen none the less.
their probability of happening is lower but they go ahead and happen anyway. they are deviations from the norm, the norm being the expected value pile. in shuffled and fully dealt blackjack games the true count presents in a normal distribution and since true counts is mainly what we know influences advantage it tends to be that the win rate presents in a normal distribution as well. and how we bet consistently taking into consideration those true counts as they present is gonna shape our results bell curve.
but what ever it's those pesky lesser sized piles that don't fall into the expected value pile is where we come up with this variance and standard deviation stuff.
and maths nerd's makes us follow certain rules for figuring variance and standard deviation. i think what it is, they want to be able to have a standardized way of manipulating the results data stuff. then they can take this standardized variance and standard deviation stuff and further fool with it. but really it's just stuff that happens or should happen and then fiddled around with mathematically. the rules are according to the encyclopedia of blackjack as follows:

expectation. The theoretical outcome per wager and a measure of how much the player (or casino) can expect to lose (or win) in a particular game based on the handle. This measure (generally expressed in dollars or percent) is based on the player's statistical advantage or disadvantage. An example of expectation for a fixed game such as American roulette would be -5.26% for a 1-unit wager on black or red.

variance. In statistics, the mean of the squares of the variations from the mean of a frequency distribution.

standard deviation. (SD). Also called fluctuation or luck. This statistical index is often used in technical blackjack texts as a measure of how much individual wins and losses can differ from the average. In statistics, the SD is the square root of its variance and is used as a measure of dispersion in a distribution. In an even game, the SD is often approximated as the square root of the total number of hands or bets divided by 2 as shown below:
SD = (Square Root of N) / 2
where N = number of hands.
For all practical purposes (99.7% of the time), you will be within 3 SDs of your expectation. 95.4% of the time you will be within 2 SDs and 68.3% of the time you will be within 1 SD.
In blackjack, where one side enjoys an advantage, it is more appropriate to express SD as a percentage. The percentage of the SD can be expressed as:
% SD = (1.1 / (Square Root of N)) x 100

 

[sagefr0g]

You will remember perhaps when I described my use of fuzzy logic when I first began counting a couple of years ago. Yes, I am guilty of fuzzy logic, but I don't use it as a primary strategy, but as a backup when I lose track of the running count. I think we've discussed this before, but anyway, here it is again, in a maybe more fuzzy logic manner. My fuzzy logic statement might be expressed as follows:

If you are sure the COUNT is between NUMBER and NUMBER+n inclusively, then COUNT equals NUMBER.

This fuzzy logic will ensure that you do not prematurely begin raising your bet by mistakenly believing the count is higher than by up to +n of what it really is.

Thus, if you forget the count, but you are sure it is either -12 or -13, then you would set the count to -13, or NUMBER. If you forget the count, but you are sure that it is -12, -13, -14, or -15, then you would set the count to -12 or NUMBER. Before, when explaining this, I expressed it in accounting terms, that is, I said I chose the more conservative position, which was the lower of the numbers in question. But either way, there is no doubt that it is fuzzy logic.

In employing this fuzzy logic strategem, you must decide how far you will let the certainty of the count to slide before you wong out. In general, most confusion exists when there is a 1 unit error or a 10 unit error, because it is easy to drop a single number, or to become confused between, say, -33 and -23, since the last digits are the same. If the confusion is between -33 and -23, it's time to wong out. However, if you become confused whether the correct count is -12 or -13, you simply set the count to -13.

When you reach -4 in six deck (I'm talking KO), you would begin raising your bet according to your predetermined bet progression. For 6-deck I use -4/2units, -3/2units, -2/3units, -1/4units, 0/5units, +1/6units, +2/8units, +3/9units, +4/10units.

If, say, you messed up and may have an error of 1, then your adjusted count might be -5 when you reached a true KO count of -4. Of course, there is a 50/50 chance that you are right on target, and your Fuzzy Count is equal to the True KO Count. The example below illustrates what would happen if you were off the True KO Count (not to be mistaken for True Count) by 1:

True KO............Fuzzy
Count....Bet..... Count....Bet
-5..........1.........-6.........1
-4..........2.........-5.........1
-3..........2.........-4.........2
-2..........3.........-3.........2
-1..........4.........-2.........3
0...........5.........-1.........4
+1.........6..........0.........5
+2.........8........+1.........6
+3.........9........+2.........8
+4........10.......+3.........9
+5........10.......+4........10

Employing fuzzy logic counting, you will lose a fraction of your advantage, but you will not waste an entire shoe where you stood to make money. I presented this type of scenario when I first started counting and everyone jumped down my throat for not being a perfect counter. They would raise questions like how do you know you are not more than one number off. My only answer is, how do they know their count is perfect. When I forget the count by one, oftentimes I know it is by one. Sometimes, I know it is by 2 or 3. Whatever it is, if I am certain what the range is within which there is error, I can make an adjustment by resetting my running count. All it amounts to is the effect of having a card or a few cards less favorable penetration.

ok, hmm. is that really fuzzy logic stuff? what ever lol, i wouldn't know although i was trying to read up on the orthodox fuzzy math stuff.
http://www.mth.kcl.ac.uk/events/summer_schools/summer_school2004/Landau.html

http://www.reasonpapers.com/pdf/19/rp_19_20.pdf

yuck.

but of any of it me, i'm more interested in the qualitative vs precise sort of thing with out being so symbolic and logical, more i guess intuitive influenced by a sense of logic sort of thing. more like what ever a guy does when he shoots a basketball, hits a golf ball or as you would well relate to like when a guy makes a pool shot sort of thing.

 

[aslan]

ok, hmm. is that really fuzzy logic stuff? what ever lol, i wouldn't know although i was trying to read up on the orthodox fuzzy math stuff.
http://www.mth.kcl.ac.uk/events/summer_schools/summer_school2004/Landau.html

http://www.reasonpapers.com/pdf/19/rp_19_20.pdf

yuck.

but of any of it me, i'm more interested in the qualitative vs precise sort of thing with out being so symbolic and logical, more i guess intuitive influenced by a sense of logic sort of thing. more like what ever a guy does when he shoots a basketball, hits a golf ball or as you would well relate to like when a guy makes a pool shot sort of thing.

I think it's fuzzy logic in that it deals with an unclear value within a range.

What the pool shot is all about is recalling a feeling, a memory of what making that particular shot felt like, and then reproducing it. It's not intuitive. It comes from thousands of experiences stored in your head and muscle memory, and then recalled as needed.

You need to define what it is you are talking about better or we will not be able to discuss it. Is it intuition? Is it a sixth sense? Is it what gamblers say, "I just had a feeling?" Is it like when you see a number a few times in a row and feel you ought ot play that number with your neighborhood bookie? Fess up, Fr0gLegs, what is IT?

 

[sagefr0g]

....

What the pool shot is all about is recalling a feeling, a memory of what making that particular shot felt like, and then reproducing it. It's not intuitive. It comes from thousands of experiences stored in your head and muscle memory, and then recalled as needed.

You need to define what it is you are talking about better or we will not be able to discuss it. Is it intuition? Is it a sixth sense? Is it what gamblers say, "I just had a feeling?" Is it like when you see a number a few times in a row and feel you ought ot play that number with your neighborhood bookie? Fess up, Fr0gLegs, what is IT?

lol, i dunno, like making a pool shot, shooting a basketball or hitting a golf ball, heck i think about it a heck of a lot before i go ahead and do it. to me a lot of it is getting the body to do just what your wanting it to do. but heck the thought process i mean i'm not cranking out numbers by any means. it's all pretty much a qualitative mental process, imagination, estimation and feedback sort of stuff. but heck i might make some shot i've never made before but that isn't to say i didn't do everything just right or needed some past experience to be recalled. it can be some general ideas and estimation of whats needed can pull the shot together.
but on the other hand it's not hard to imagine a robot controlled by a computer just using digital math stuff getting those shots perfect every time.

 

[aslan]

lol, i dunno, like making a pool shot, shooting a basketball or hitting a golf ball, heck i think about it a heck of a lot before i go ahead and do it. to me a lot of it is getting the body to do just what your wanting it to do. but heck the thought process i mean i'm not cranking out numbers by any means. it's all pretty much a qualitative mental process, imagination, estimation and feedback sort of stuff. but heck i might make some shot i've never made before but that isn't to say i didn't do everything just right or needed some past experience to be recalled. it can be some general ideas and estimation of whats needed can pull the shot together.
but on the other hand it's not hard to imagine a robot controlled by a computer just using digital math stuff getting those shots perfect every time.

That will be the day that you trust a robot over a surgeon to operate on your brain. (supervised robots is another thing! as in laser surgery) We're not there yet, and may never be. The multitude of things necessary to make a difficult billiard shot may not be teachable to a robot. But anyway, try the method I told you next time you're on the golf course. I suppose what works for pool will work for golf. It may improve your game. Basically pool is remembering how the shot felt when you made it perfectly in the past. That memory may be a compsite of a thousand shots you made in the past. Yeah, you do a lot of things, figure the angle, figure the side of the round cue fitting to the side if the round object ball at just the right place to pocket the ball, figure the shot to favor the professional side of the pocket (the most forgiving side), figuring the speed, figuring the touch to be applied (memory is very inportant here), figure the body stance, remember to relax, focus, figure the exact degree of English, caution yourself not to lift your head, look at the object ball last before you pull the trigger, stroke the shot a few times first, get comfortable, observe the stroking shaft in line with the angle being shot, decide the amount of force to be applied, allow for deflection (the vibrating action the cue when it strikes the cue ball which forces the cue ball off the desired course), figure the amount of deviance from the intended course caused by English applied, figure the need for English and/or speed to overcome inertia without dragging the object ball off course and which is magnified if the balls are dirty, figure the path of the cue ball after the shot that will take it to the position desired for the next shot which will in turn allow positioning for the shot after that, Figure the likelihood of failing to get position for the next shot over a variety of routes that can be taken by the cue ball<===most of all these things are done automatically, some instinctively, and much of it is incorporated in the act of remembering how the shot felt when you made it perfectly several times in the past. You're said to be in stroke when all of this is done unconsciously like when you drive your car. And don't forget to follow through, hold the cue relaxed so that it can impart the proper action on the cue ball, and keep you head down after the final stroke. Good! You're almost a pro! lol

 

[sagefr0g]

astute observations on luck

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=118789&postcount=23
who would have known, kc has a sense of humor?:laugh:

 

[sagefr0g]

That will be the day that you trust a robot over a surgeon to operate on your brain. (supervised robots is another thing! as in laser surgery) We're not there yet, and may never be. The multitude of things necessary to make a difficult billiard shot may not be teachable to a robot. But anyway, try the method I told you next time you're on the golf course. I suppose what works for pool will work for golf. It may improve your game. Basically pool is remembering how the shot felt when you made it perfectly in the past. That memory may be a compsite of a thousand shots you made in the past. Yeah, you do a lot of things, figure the angle, figure the side of the round cue fitting to the side if the round object ball at just the right place to pocket the ball, figure the shot to favor the professional side of the pocket (the most forgiving side), figuring the speed, figuring the touch to be applied (memory is very inportant here), figure the body stance, remember to relax, focus, figure the exact degree of English, caution yourself not to lift your head, look at the object ball last before you pull the trigger, stroke the shot a few times first, get comfortable, observe the stroking shaft in line with the angle being shot, decide the amount of force to be applied, allow for deflection (the vibrating action the cue when it strikes the cue ball which forces the cue ball off the desired course), figure the amount of deviance from the intended course caused by English applied, figure the need for English and/or speed to overcome inertia without dragging the object ball off course and which is magnified if the balls are dirty, figure the path of the cue ball after the shot that will take it to the position desired for the next shot which will in turn allow positioning for the shot after that, Figure the likelihood of failing to get position for the next shot over a variety of routes that can be taken by the cue ball<===most of all these things are done automatically, some instinctively, and much of it is incorporated in the act of remembering how the shot felt when you made it perfectly several times in the past. You're said to be in stroke when all of this is done unconsciously like when you drive your car. And don't forget to follow through, hold the cue relaxed so that it can impart the proper action on the cue ball, and keep you head down after the final stroke. Good! You're almost a pro! lol

thanks for the lesson, lol.

brain surgery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRw9y7ZaD7k

et al
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NZLpWrJGgk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_sbcmta1M8&feature=related

pool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqySRRVmy5U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ9cTF597Ww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J70p-dCfi_s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUDvrBs3VW8&feature=related

 

[aslan]

thanks for the lesson, lol.

brain surgery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRw9y7ZaD7k

et al
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NZLpWrJGgk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_sbcmta1M8&feature=related

pool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqySRRVmy5U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ9cTF597Ww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J70p-dCfi_s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUDvrBs3VW8&feature=related

I don't have sound on this computer, but I trust that robot surgery is humanly supervised and assisted. lol I.e., it s a tool, not a replacement for a human being. If it is a replacement, imagine hospitals with no doctors. Still I think we're still at the stage where humans have to set it all up. It's kind of like making pool shots blindfolded. Once I have it all set up, you can blindfold me and I can still make the shot with consistency.

 

[sagefr0g]

.. Once I have it all set up, you can blindfold me and I can still make the shot with consistency.

that's pretty good.
this guy claims he doesn't even aim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ieWrWLjii0

 

[aslan]

that's pretty good.
this guy claims he doesn't even aim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ieWrWLjii0

I've seen a lot of things, but this one takes the cake! My wheels are already turning in my head for a way to adapt his method into my pool routine. lol You know, part of pool is believing you can do it. I have had phenomenal success with some unbelievable shots, but never with the consistency of the video you so kindly shared.

Check this out. Efren Reyes, The Magician, attempts to play safe and accidentally pockets a ball, which means he played himself safe. Living up to his nickname, The Magician, Efren makes the most famous shot ever in the annals of tournament play, now known worldwide as the "Z" shot. Efren has done things like this throughout his career. Fuzzy shooting, anyone? The only thing I'm fuzzy about, is how in the world does he do it?! Same goes for the slingshot man!

 

[sagefr0g]

I've seen a lot of things, but this one takes the cake! My wheels are already turning in my head for a way to adapt his method into my pool routine. lol You know, part of pool is believing you can do it. I have had phenomenal success with some unbelievable shots, but never with the consistency of the video you so kindly shared.

Check this out. Efren Reyes, The Magician, attempts to play safe and accidentally pockets a ball, which means he played himself safe. Living up to his nickname, The Magician, Efren makes the most famous shot ever in the annals of tournament play, now known worldwide as the "Z" shot. Efren has done things like this throughout his career. Fuzzy shooting, anyone? The only thing I'm fuzzy about, is how in the world does he do it?! Same goes for the slingshot man!

you gotta give the guy his due, lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfJ4bglxXJg&feature=related

it's like all sorts of sports, how they say a guy gets in the 'zone'.
i forget where i read about it. some one talking about Jordon and how he would get in the zone. maybe not just Jordon, others like him and not to take anything away from any of them but the idea was they get the opportunity or see a possibility and take a shot at it and low and behold it happens sort of thing. but part of it is they are always in there plugging away at it, sort of thing. like a knock out artist like Foreman, says you don't look for the knock out you just let it happen. lol.
doesn't mean there's no skill involved just means maybe skill along with other fortuitous factors perhaps.

 

[aslan]

you gotta give the guy his due, lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfJ4bglxXJg&feature=related

it's like all sorts of sports, how they say a guy gets in the 'zone'.
i forget where i read about it. some one talking about Jordon and how he would get in the zone. maybe not just Jordon, others like him and not to take anything away from any of them but the idea was they get the opportunity or see a possibility and take a shot at it and low and behold it happens sort of thing. but part of it is they are always in there plugging away at it, sort of thing. like a knock out artist like Foreman, says you don't look for the knock out you just let it happen. lol.
doesn't mean there's no skill involved just means maybe skill along with other fortuitous factors perhaps.

But from being a serious-minded contender (as opposed to a serious contender lol), I know that there is a zone and there is a zone. We all talk about a zone, but a Jordan zone, a Reyes zone and a slingshot guy zone (forgive me, I forget his name) are closer to the twilight zone than the ordinary professional's zone. Sometimes it actually seems like believing makes it happen. You visualize it, you don't bother that it is normally a thousand to one shot, and you do it--just like that. WTF? I can't believe it myself. The better the player, the greater the belief in one's capability. Is it the mountain moving thing?

The best player I ever knew was the Knoxville Bear, Eddie Taylor. Other top pros shoot a shot with confidence that it will be successful. Eddie seemed to shoot a shot "knowing" that it would be successful. When does believing become knowing? I guess when it seems so easy that it's like clapping your hands--how often does one hand miss the other. lol Do you clap believing or do you clap knowing? It's a pretty close call. It's believing so much on the cusp of knowing that you don't give it a second thought. He didn't. Some called him a freak at bank pool.

The slingshot guy is a freak of sorts. Is there anyone in the world that can do what he did on that video? If there is, all I can say is that there are two slingshot freaks. lol Well, I'll just keep practicing. lol And practicing, and practicing... lmao hoping someday I too may become a freak. lmao Cause that what it comes down to. lol

I also liked the humility aspect of the slingshot guy--he didn't clain to be the best. Made a point of it as a matter of fact. I think one of the biggest distractions to doing anything like he does is pride--bragging how good you are. You're putting unnecessary pressure on yourself. He was humble--admitted he was good, but declined to claim he was the best. So is it with that pool champion, Reyes, When asked what he feels like whenever he wins a championship, he always says, "I got lucky!" So there you have it, Sage, it's all about luck, or at the very least about not claiming it was skill. The champs either say it was luck or thank you, Jesus. lol Do they even know how they do it? I doubt it. I think they're just afraid of chasing it away! lmao

Yup! The champs are just like you and me. Something great happens and all of a sudden you're afraid you'll say something or do something that will chase the good times a way. rotflol Come to Papa, baby...be there...hard eight!! Yesssss!!!! How do they do it?!

[Here's Aslan coming full circle.] I bet it's all kind of fuzzy to the great ones as well. I'm not sure what I do. I just do it, sort of thing. It seemed easy at the time. I just saw it and I did it. I got lucky. What the heck! Eddie Taylor once said, "I was just an average player, Then one day I just stopped missing." Duh!! A million people trying to get there, and that is how he explains it! Keep on practicing...keep practicing...keep on keeping on...lmao All I can figure out is I need more practice. lol Just maybe, if I practice long and hard enough, one day I too can stand there and say, "I got lucky!" lmao

 

[sagefr0g]

But from being a serious-minded contender (as opposed to a serious contender lol), I know that there is a zone and there is a zone. We all talk about a zone, but a Jordan zone, a Reyes zone and a slingshot guy zone (forgive me, I forget his name) are closer to the twilight zone than the ordinary professional's zone. Sometimes it actually seems like believing makes it happen. You visualize it, you don't bother that it is normally a thousand to one shot, and you do it--just like that. WTF? I can't believe it myself. The better the player, the greater the belief in one's capability. Is it the mountain moving thing?

The best player I ever knew was the Knoxville Bear, Eddie Taylor. Other top pros shoot a shot with confidence that it will be successful. Eddie seemed to shoot a shot "knowing" that it would be successful. When does believing become knowing? I guess when it seems so easy that it's like clapping your hands--how often does one hand miss the other. lol Do you clap believing or do you clap knowing? It's a pretty close call. It's believing so much on the cusp of knowing that you don't give it a second thought. He didn't. Some called him a freak at bank pool.

The slingshot guy is a freak of sorts. Is there anyone in the world that can do what he did on that video? If there is, all I can say is that there are two slingshot freaks. lol Well, I'll just keep practicing. lol And practicing, and practicing... lmao hoping someday I too may become a freak. lmao Cause that what it comes down to. lol

I also liked the humility aspect of the slingshot guy--he didn't clain to be the best. Made a point of it as a matter of fact. I think one of the biggest distractions to doing anything like he does is pride--bragging how good you are. You're putting unnecessary pressure on yourself. He was humble--admitted he was good, but declined to claim he was the best. So is it with that pool champion, Reyes, When asked what he feels like whenever he wins a championship, he always says, "I got lucky!" So there you have it, Sage, it's all about luck, or at the very least about not claiming it was skill. The champs either say it was luck or thank you, Jesus. lol Do they even know how they do it? I doubt it. I think they're just afraid of chasing it away! lmao

Yup! The champs are just like you and me. Something great happens and all of a sudden you're afraid you'll say something or do something that will chase the good times a way. rotflol Come to Papa, baby...be there...hard eight!! Yesssss!!!! How do they do it?!

[Here's Aslan coming full circle.] I bet it's all kind of fuzzy to the great ones as well. I'm not sure what I do. I just do it, sort of thing. It seemed easy at the time. I just saw it and I did it. I got lucky. What the heck! Eddie Taylor once said, "I was just an average player, Then one day I just stopped missing." Duh!! A million people trying to get there, and that is how he explains it! Keep on practicing...keep practicing...keep on keeping on...lmao All I can figure out is I need more practice. lol Just maybe, if I practice long and hard enough, one day I too can stand there and say, "I got lucky!" lmao

so i wonder if maths nerds have ever statistically or what ever applied a measuring stick to these sports wizards. put some numbers on their 'zone-ness' sort of thing, lol.
hey we can do it for blackjack, case in point Kas's spread sheet.

 

[aslan]

so i wonder if maths nerds have ever statistically or what ever applied a measuring stick to these sports wizards. put some numbers on their 'zone-ness' sort of thing, lol.
hey we can do it for blackjack, case in point Kas's spread sheet.

Right!!! Now all we need is a wizard. Someone who always wins big bucks, never loses. Hmmm! Hmmmm! Hmmmm! Hmmm! Hmmm! Come up with anyone yet? Me neither.:sad:

 

[sagefr0g]

Right!!! Now all we need is a wizard. Someone who always wins big bucks, never loses. Hmmm! Hmmmm! Hmmmm! Hmmm! Hmmm! Come up with anyone yet? Me neither.:sad:

zengrifter. :gun::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::whip:

or

QFIT's CVDATA

you get to choose.:devil:

 

[aslan]

zengrifter. :gun::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::whip:

or

QFIT's CVDATA

you get to choose.:devil:

Are either in the class of the slingshot man? Please explain. lol

 

[sagefr0g]

Are either in the class of the slingshot man? Please explain. lol

lmao, we have to be realistic. those two are about as close as your gonna get.:cat:
the legend vs the robot.

 

[aslan]

lmao, we have to be realistic. those two are about as close as your gonna get.:cat:
the legend vs the robot.

But the robot can only achieve predictable results, right? That slingshot guy was off the charts!! zg would have a better chance, but I think he will readily admit that something like the slingshot man is a freak of nature, and zg is no freak of nature, although he's a smart and resourceful player of the first order. Is there someone who consistently beats all expectations? I'd say that so far there is no evidence that such a prodigy exists. It could be someone whose photographic mind gives him a quantum leap advantage over the perfect card counter. I would imagine that remembering every card played could give a player a whopping advantage over simple counting. How do we find him? lol

 

[sagefr0g]

But the robot can only achieve predictable results, right? That slingshot guy was off the charts!! zg would have a better chance, but I think he will readily admit that something like the slingshot man is a freak of nature, and zg is no freak of nature, although he's a smart and resourceful player of the first order. Is there someone who consistently beats all expectations? I'd say that so far there is no evidence that such a prodigy exists. It could be someone whose photographic mind gives him a quantum leap advantage over the perfect card counter. I would imagine that remembering every card played could give a player a whopping advantage over simple counting. How do we find him? lol

yeah, sigh, we just gonna have to set our sights a bit lower, zg or cvdata.
i'm for going with cvdata for practical reasons.

 

[aslan]

yeah, sigh, we just gonna have to set our sights a bit lower, zg or cvdata.
i'm for going with cvdata for practical reasons.

Controllability? Sigh!