Oscar grinders

[sagefr0g]

head butting in the wild casinodom & karma

Oh, and the other players I've worked with, they're some of the biggest scumbags in the world from a ploppy's perspective, but I trust them fully, and they're very nice people aside from the times they need to run some asshole off a game. One of them got into an argument with a ploppy while I forced them to bet every single hand (if they didn't put a bet in the circle I would start asking for the seat.. then they would put a bet down) to set up a very uncomfortable situation.

Anyone who's serious about this doesn't like standing around all shift with their dick in their hand. If you're not placing bets you're not earning your paycheck. If you look in beyond counting, there's a lot of ways listed in it to get someone off a game, a lot of those methods are pretty standard in the industry.

those ploppies don't realize it but they want to make money too, lol.
in that sense, custody of that seat becomes a contest maybe even a battle. but do the ends justify the means? kind of depends, doesn't it?
this a'int Nascar, football, basketball, where everyone realizes they are on a team or are going for some brass ring, lol.
here is the thing, industry standard, smandard, good grief fellow AP's find another way. maybe something a bit more nobel
this being the voodoo section, consider karma, consider right and wrong behavior with respect to humane nature. break that and do you think it a'int gonna catch up with you?
just know this, high advantage plays, extreme plus ev, it can and will still come up loser at times. just like a slot machine, push that button at the right time and bingo! push it at the wrong time and Casey at the bat just struck out, lol.
if one is making hc plays, good grief, your making money man. where does greed come in here. greed is another karma point, point where neglect of the right and wrong issue can come into play. look at nature, predators and prey, do lioness's hunt constantly or are they satisfied once their needs are met?
but look at humane commerce in history with respect to industry standards, look at the crap that has been committed in the name of profit.
but that stuff has evolved over time, improved, not perfect but improved.
just me maybe, but it appears the wiz of odds is spot on once again:
http://www.wizardofodds.com/gambling/tencom.html
commandment 10: # Thou shalt have good gambling etiquette.

 

[tthree]

I don't define cheating as breaking the law. Cheating is intentionally breaking the natural boundaries of the game. Maybe my morals are set higher than many but if information is not supposed to be available to any player seeking to get this information is cheating when it is gathered successfully. People of lower moral standards have a loose interpretation of common conduct in an attempt to lie to their subconscious. Unless you are a psychopath you can not lie to your subconscious. People that try are made unhappy by their subconscious mind and often act out in an antisocial manner toward others. Do your happiness a favor and don't try to rationalize to allow yourself to do what you know is wrong. No amount of money is worth the cost or damage this does to yourself.

 

[QFIT]

There ARE teams who do things like spill a drink on somebody.

This is defined as "battery" in common law. "Battery is concerned with the right to have one's body left alone by others." Anyone that does this should be banned from casinos.

 

[pit15]

This is defined as "battery" in common law. "Battery is concerned with the right to have one's body left alone by others." Anyone that does this should be banned from casinos.

Which is exactly why I won't go that far. I won't do anything illegal to run someone off. If they find out you intentionally tossed a drink onto someone you can easily be spending the night in jail for that. The best legal way IMO to get rid of people is to have a player who stinks (whether it's not taking a shower for ungodly amounts of time, or putting on some kind of scent that's unbearable) stand next to the person or sit down next to them. The problem with that is you have to live with yourself.

sagefrog, I don't gamble, so gambling etiquette doesn't apply. When I'm at the tables I'm at work. If being rude to someone's going to get you your paycheck for the shift (or give you a higher chance of getting it) then you're going to do it. Obviously I only do it if I have to. If it's a player who looks like they're going to be there for a long time, and it's the only game available. If there's another good game 2 tables over with the seat empty then I'm obviously going to go take that way. I know people who'll split 10s after getting the spot they want just to piss people off (with min bets). Generally after I get my seat I'm happy being nice to everyone.

tthree, ok, whatever. I used to work on wall street - a hedge fund which was a giant risk sharing scam, and an investment bank who's job is to squeeze the middle class for personal gain. So I don't think I have any moral issues here taking advantage of a casino too stupid to protect their own games. If someday you see a BJ dealer exposing the downcard and decide not to take advantage of it "because sitting in that seat is so morally wrong", then you're not really an AP IMO (but I'm sure you don't care for my opinion, which is fine). Most counters won't actively seek out these opportunities but if one hits them in the face they're gonna take it.

For what it's worth, casinos don't see any real difference between counters, hole carders, shuffle trackers, and cheaters. They're all unwanted people. If the casinos could they would make card counting illegal and arrest you just like any roulette past-poster would be. So cut the moral crap please.

 

[tthree]

morality crap?

Morality is not crap. Most people who made their own fortunes will talk about the time when they were most happy as before they made their money when they were struggling to make an honest buck. This is not because money makes you miserable or poverty makes you happy but because if you do what is right you feel good about yourself no matter how bad things are. If you do what you know is wrong you feel bad about who you are no matter how much money you have. The exception to this is a psychopath. They are incapable of any feeling toward other people. The functioning ones are very good at faking it but can not care about anyone but themselves. The people who learn this simple lesson are happy no matter what. Those that don't usually tell themselves more money will make them happy and follow a path that is a downward spiral into the pit of despair.

I have been through a lot of horrible things. People are always amazed how it never phases me and that I am happy through worse circumstances than they have ever seen. They have trouble being happy through the best life throws at them. I explain what I learned early in life about making your own happiness by being someone you can feel good about being. The ones that actually learn from our conversation later thank me for giving them the only information that ever allowed them to make themselves control their happiness. They always believed their happiness or lack there of was due to their circumstances and could never understand why good fortune failed to have a lasting affect on their happiness.

 

[pit15]

Heh, making an "honest buck" just means you're a sucker being taken advantage of. And if you think card counting can be considered as "making an honest buck" then you're out of your mind.

 

[tthree]

How is card counting not making an honest buck. The casino is free to alter the game to take your advantage away if they so choose. Your advantage is gained only by information you are supposed to have. Nothing dishonest about it. It is an investment in a risk/reward situation just like any business. Taking advantage of incidentally seeing a hole card is not dishonest. Intentionally trying to see your opponents cards is a different story. I always tell anyone I play cards with to watch what they are doing if they are accidentally allowing me to see their cards. If they continue to do it I am not going to try to get the information. If I do get it I am incapable of acting like I don't know what I saw. How do you unsee something?

 

[pit15]

lol, what a hypocrite. One type of AP is making an honest buck, another type is cheating.

Most people consider "making an honest buck" as doing something that contributes to society. Card counters contribute nothing to society .

I can see someone working for a charity preaching this kind of crap, but an APer? Gimmie a break.

 

[pit15]

The casino is also free to properly train their dealers as to not expose the cards.

 

[tthree]

I do charitable work!

 

[tthree]

My preaching was not judging but talking about what it takes to be happy in your own skin. Different people have different levels of selfishness and empathy. Psychopaths only have selfishness. Others only have empathy. Most fall somewhere in between. What I know is what I have to do to be happy about who I am. If I can achieve that nothing else can take that away. I lost my best friend to a premature death when I was younger. I was in a horrible car wreck that had me a year in recovery. I was generous with a friend to the tune of $30,000 only to find out he valued money more than friendship. He doesn't want to even be around me even though I have never brought up the subject of the money. I could care less about the money but friends are hard to come by. I have a very aggressive form of cancer that if I live another 5 years I will be the one to defy the odds. I could go on. None of this ever phased me because I try my best to do what is right by other people first, then worry about what is best for me. This makes me feel very good about who I am. That is the genesis of happiness.

 

[flyingwind]

what exactly is an Oscar grinder?

 

[Friendo]

what exactly is an Oscar grinder?

It's an old term for a message forum members who post multiple pages pissing-match material totally unrelated to the original topic. Sort of like threadjacking, but more tedious: hence the term "grinder."

Named after Oscar the Grouch, due to both foul mood and the claimed poor personal hygiene and comportment among some of the grinders.

 

[shadroch]

Oscars Grind is named after a craps player from the early 1960s who played in Vegas every weekend on a $100 BR and claimed never to have a losing session. He'd bet $1 and played a very slight progression where he only raised his bets after a win and played the rolls as individual sessions. Once he got ahead in a session, it ended and a new session began.
google it.

 

[tthree]

Bet 1 unit.
Up your bet 1 unit after a win.
Never bet more than enough to win 1 unit total since your last win.
After you are 1 unit ahead, repeat (bet 1 unit).

 

[Solo player]

I don't agree

Sitting in a particular seat with the intention of purposefully gaining hole card information and then using it is cheating. If you were coincidentally in the seat and used the information it is not cheating.

I do not see this as cheating. It is a weakness in the casino game. Take the money.

 

[sagefr0g]

.... not taking a shower for ungodly amounts of time, or putting on some kind of scent that's unbearable) stand next to the person or sit down next to them. The problem with that is you have to live with yourself.

living with one's self a'int only a matter of living with some smell.

sagefrog, I don't gamble, so gambling etiquette doesn't apply.

well, your an AP, not a typical gambler, but you a'int gonna bet the farm on any given play are you? why is that? because of risk, uncertainty and fluctuation, it can blow you up. just me maybe, that to me is a gamble even if AP techniques are used.
i know that you know, that AP techniques are not always successful.
but the etiquette is needed, reason being, errh why in the first place do you want money? survival, sure but isn't it also a means of exchange for happiness? read the reason for the wizards 10th commandment (in the link), it's to do with happiness.

When I'm at the tables I'm at work. If being rude to someone's going to get you your paycheck for the shift (or give you a higher chance of getting it) then you're going to do it. Obviously I only do it if I have to.

i've worked a many a job, for many a year, never has rudeness been a prerequisite for working. strength, aggressiveness perhaps even physically combative could be called for but never disrespect for another living being. an old saying, 'do unto others as you'd have others do unto you", doubtless no one wants to be treated rudely.
lack of respect in one's behavior is a recipe for disaster, imho.

If it's a player who looks like they're going to be there for a long time, and it's the only game available. If there's another good game 2 tables over with the seat empty then I'm obviously going to go take that way. I know people who'll split 10s after getting the spot they want just to piss people off (with min bets). Generally after I get my seat I'm happy being nice to everyone.

that's the ticket.

 

[sagefr0g]

Sitting in a particular seat with the intention of purposefully gaining hole card information and then using it is cheating. If you were coincidentally in the seat and used the information it is not cheating. That is why the correlation of your wins to your favorite seat is what will convict you.

no that's semantics, pretty much your personal judgment, which is fine, just don't hang it on others.
this thing between casinos and patron players is a contest. laws must be abide d by both sides but it's a contest not unlike Nascar racing, boxing, wrestling, baseball, basketball, what have you. all of which has a lot of rough stuff goes on. those who can't stand the heat need to get out of the kitchen, lol.
edit: imho, one should consider the integrity of the dealers job, such that they don't end up subject to disciplinary problems, that's a hairy one.

 

[tallmanvegas]

can't wait to hear when you bust out and lose all your money

Another great trip to Vegas playing purples. Getting ready for UFC tonight. Will report on play by play action, thanks for all support