Real Pros?
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Craps Master
Well-Known Member
The point is to learn from your mistakes. When you take an untenable position, you ultimately can't come out looking good when examined under the cold light of logic. Advantage players definitely learn from their mistakes. Your mistakes in this thread were being presumptuous, showing a lack of intellectual integrity with regards to the accusations you've made, and trying to create obfuscation and uncertainty about your level of play and knowledge through dodging questions and appeals to semantics. The truth is you're not a professional and you can't even find it in yourself to answer the question about your level of expertise. If you're feeling painted into a corner, you have only yourself to blame. You should have been honest and clear from the start, as I have. That is the lesson you should take from this thread. That is some exceptionally sound advice from a Real Pro to you. You're welcome.QFIT said:If I say I am an expert; he attacks me. If I say I am not; he attacks me. And if I say neither; he attacks me. What's the point of conversation when absolutely every possible answer results in an attack?
QFIT
Well-Known Member
Ignored by whom? You call Schlesinger a hack - but he discusses this in detail. My software even includes cover Wonging. You dump on people without having ever looked at their work. Your discussion of shoes, camouflage and spread sound like they came straight out of the very book you claim is worthless.Craps Master said:
QFIT
Well-Known Member
You claim I took an untenable position. But I took no such position at all. You simply made it up. You cannot find one post in the ten years I have been posting where I took the position you claim. You cannot find one page of the over hundred on my sites where I took any position slightly like the position you claim I took. You come here and call the experts hacks, poseurs and salesmen. Then when challenged you claim you never said that. Then you do it again. You are here to attack. Period.Craps Master said:
I say again; nearly every recognized expert in the field says CV software is the best. An insulting, anonymous person borrowing from old posts as a proof of knowledge claims it is worthless. I leave it to the reader. There are free demos at http://www.qfit.com/downloads.htm. You don't have to believe the experts or the anonymous attacks. Examine the software yourself.
Craps Master
Well-Known Member
Actually, Schlesinger's discussions of ODP are weak... nearly as weak as his discussions about camouflage, betting ramps, and spreads. They make totally fictitious assumptions about casino conditions and the availability of new games. I'm discrediting this method for a variety of reasons, one of which is the lack of legitimate intercommunication between the theory and practice in this area. The other reason is that other methods get money more effectively with less casino scrutiny. You should know that if you've been counting for 30 years or if you've played for higher stakes than red chips. Sure, hyper-aggressive wonging for red chips is just great, but once your max bets start climbing close to four figures, the game changes.QFIT said:
But you've already said you're not a professional and you've repeatedly demonstrated an inability to respond to a direct question about your level of expertise, so you should really be asking me questions in this thread about Real Pros and not going on about books and software about whose (lack of ) worth and merit I'm already well informed.
person1125
Well-Known Member
Hey Craps -
I was going to ask something similar to what QFIT is eluding to. You advocate conditions over counting. So what's the matter with Blackjack Attack and the numerous tables and information that Schlesinger provides? Don't they say the same as you are? That conditions DO make a big difference....that if you have the choice between 2 games - look in BJA - find the 2 games and see which one gives you the better advantage to start. That the deeper pen the better, the larger the spread the better, 6D in better than 8D, etc. OR are you just saying Schlesinger has a great mathematical knowledge of the game BUT is not a great player?
I was going to ask something similar to what QFIT is eluding to. You advocate conditions over counting. So what's the matter with Blackjack Attack and the numerous tables and information that Schlesinger provides? Don't they say the same as you are? That conditions DO make a big difference....that if you have the choice between 2 games - look in BJA - find the 2 games and see which one gives you the better advantage to start. That the deeper pen the better, the larger the spread the better, 6D in better than 8D, etc. OR are you just saying Schlesinger has a great mathematical knowledge of the game BUT is not a great player?
Craps Master
Well-Known Member
Spin it any way you want, QFIT. We've established the facts in this case, and the facts are, once again, that you're not a professional blackjack player and you're not able to answer the question of whether you're an expert. The untenable position you took was one of misdirection, disinformation and obfuscation. Among a group of advantage players who are guided by rationality and a quest for the truth, this is definitely an untenable position. Did you maybe want to make some more accusations about me? Maybe try to call me someone I'm not? Maybe try to say I've said things like "all respected authorities in the field are money-hungry hacks" and that "I am the only real source of information?" Or maybe you'd rather just dodge a few more direct questions? Come on. You've made more fabrications on this thread alone than the Chinese garmet industry has in the last 10 years.QFIT said:
Yes, and I still say it's worthless to a professional or aspiring professional. Sure, go evaluate it if you want. You'll see. My advice would be to spend your time looking for ways to maximize your EV in casinos by understanding the meta-game of getting as much money into action as possible in the best situations you can find, as opposed to getting caught up in the inapplicable aspects of kitchen-table theory that the experts and authorities would have you believe is so important. Would it amaze you to learn that there are professionals out there, making more money through advantage play than me, you, or anyone on that list of 13 so-called authorities who haven't even read a book on blackjack or used a piece of blackjack software?
Craps Master
Well-Known Member
Blackjack Attack is weak for a number of reasons. First, the author has no concept about what realistic casino conditions are and, as such, bases a lot of his advice on pure assumptions. Assumptions that will cost you money. Secondly, he does not have a realistic, working knowledge about what kinds of play gets you heat and what kinds of play doesn't get you heat. Sure, any clown knows that a 1-30 spread is better than a 1-12 spread, and it's so nice that Schlesinger has taken up the role of Captain Obvious and given us a bevy of charts and tables to confirm just that. But when he says things like, "Don't bet up except after a win" or recommends the spread levels that he does, because of his assumptions about casino heat and what gets observed and what draws attention and what amount of backcounting is optimal or how long of a session you can play, he is costing the aspiring professional money. It's extremely simple, really.person1125 said:
You have to judge things for yourself, and you have to be smart about minimizing scrutiny while maximizing EV. Little tricks like finding a pit with a whale and playing at a table in the same pit but in a position that makes it inconvenient for the floor to watch you will get you far more EV than general, theoretical advice and statements dreamed up in a vacuum. If you're going to try to win real money from card counting, you have to do things like that. If your top bets are well into the blacks, your first job in a casino should be to scout the action in general and see what sort of ceiling you have in terms of bet size and then to find the tables that offer the best conditions and take it from there. If you're working with a team, you can find the casino that offers the best ceiling and conditions and converge on it. No need to wander all over town playing 30 minutes here, 30 minutes there, and so on when you can park it in the casino with the best conditions and get away with murder without even getting noticed.
Craps Master
Well-Known Member
You remind me of QFIT. And all of the other armchair players.QFIT said:
person1125
Well-Known Member
So what you are saying is this as an example: there is a pit with 12 tables in a circle like a clock face (1 for each number). MJ and Barkley are playing $1000 hands at 12 o'clock. You are saying to play at 6 o'clock and spread from $25 x 1 to $500 x 2 and you won't or shouldn't get heat.Craps Master said:
Ok so that brings up a question I have. Say you aren't able to pick from too many casinos - let's say there are only 2 in your area that are within a couple hours drive. And they are both smaller 'low roller' joints. What is your advice then? There is no way you could put down a spread like you suggest without getting das boot. How could you exploit them the best without getting booted, but at the same time maximizing your gain?
Craps Master
Well-Known Member
Save up for a trip to somewhere better. What's your time worth? Can you make enough counting cards and employing a small spread in some low-stakes grind joint to make it worth your while? If so, go right ahead, but I think you're better off trying to find a better game. Maybe that game isn't even blackjack, in this case, since it seems the offerings are so poor.person1125 said:
QFIT
Well-Known Member
I have no problem with anyone making legitimate posts. I have a problem with someone that keeps posting lies. If CM can stop the attacks against people and post suggestions; that's fine with me. Posting that I'm a red chip player, that I make claims I've never made, that authors are hacks, poseurs and salesmen, to another poster that his answers are "beyond the capability of your intellect" and about another poster here "maybe next you can tap into those formiddable powers of intellect of yours to teach the newbies here how to scam a prize without actually buying a box of Cracker Jacks", to another poster "I'm sort of insulted that you think you're even in a league sufficient to engage in discourse with me" is not helpful.ChefJJ said:
Just my humble opinion.
ChefJJ
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I think you can just hit the "IGNORE" button to tune anyone out...and if someone is a blowhard, then people will get the point. But there sure as hell isn't anything wrong with wanting to defend one's self.QFIT said:
What do you think about the practical idea CM had about using other "distracting high rollers" to deflect attention from you to play where the good conditions are? At this point in time, I'm not a black chipper who would be in the same pit as a whale, Barkley, or MJ; so I'm just curious.
good luck
Craps Master
Well-Known Member
Just your humble (non-professional) opinion. In my non-humble, professional opinion, all of my posts have been legitimate and worthwhile. It's your loss if you can't see that.QFIT said:
Chunky Yellow
Member
Then I suspect you have a big problem with your own posts, since they littered with falsehoods. All in the name to sell worthless software. Pathetic...QFIT said:
Still waiting for any evidence of your libelous claims.
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QFIT
Well-Known Member
This has been a polite site. It would be a shame to see that change. Discussion is very difficult when one person decides to drown out all other voices. And no there isn't anything wrong with defending one's self.ChefJJ said:
There are many ways of using other people: celebrities, high rollers, annoying team members, attractive girls from the local 'gentleman's club.' I knew one guy that brought his girlfriend - an incredibly endowed stripper with no bra and an open-weave top. But there are a lot of variables. Are you known by the casino? What is your act? Do you engage the people or sit nearby? What kind of high-roller? I'll tell you a very old story. A friend was sitting at a table with Telly Savalas at C@esars. Savalas made a comment about his play. My friend told him to shove a lollipop up his rear. Now that is probably not a good example of camouflageChefJJ said:
The best is to sit nearby a fast player that bets erratically and is very animated. Sports figures come to mind. He will take a large amount of pit attention. But if it is just a very high bettor that plays in a sedate manner; the pit will still need to be nearby and may be more likely to watch you than if you were just part of a normal crowd. Of course you aren't going to run into this arrangement very often if you aren't manipulating it yourself; and you can't keep showing up in like circumstances at the same casino. Obviously making the best of circumstances, creating circumstances and cover are extrodinarily important. I have said this hundreds of times in the past and the suggestion that I think numbers and charts are the be-all and end-all is nonsense. But to ignore the numbers is equally foolish. If you do not understand the risk behind your play - you had better have an infinite bankroll.
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sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
it's yea ole double bind. have heart your doing well.QFIT said:
oh and by the way you are an expert.
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So, do any of u, or have u ever, including CM, put "professional gambler" down as your occupation on your tax return?
I would think that would entitle u to deductions u otherwise would not have. Like maybe u could deduct your disguises lol. Travel expenses, etc.
And I am in no way a professional gambler even if I did make my living at it for 6-8 years.
But I do thank Norm nonetheless for his CVBJ software. I think I've gotten my $10/yr back over the last 8 years or so lol. To me it was worth the money many times over. Likewise, the cost of books I've bought over time.
I would think that would entitle u to deductions u otherwise would not have. Like maybe u could deduct your disguises lol. Travel expenses, etc.
And I am in no way a professional gambler even if I did make my living at it for 6-8 years.
But I do thank Norm nonetheless for his CVBJ software. I think I've gotten my $10/yr back over the last 8 years or so lol. To me it was worth the money many times over. Likewise, the cost of books I've bought over time.
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