The cost of playing blackjack

[shadroch]

When I used to play Sic Bo,I tipped the dealers a straight ten percent of my winnings,as I won them.
I used to use a half-assed combination martingale-oscar progressive/regressive system that generally left me broke although I cleaned up a few times,but there were times the dealers would "forget" to take one of my big bets after a loss.Did the fact that they knew if they left it out and I won the next hand,they'd get $5-$10 dollars come into play?Who knows.

 

[Brutus]

When I used to play Sic Bo,I tipped the dealers a straight ten percent of my winnings,as I won them.
I used to use a half-assed combination martingale-oscar progressive/regressive system that generally left me broke although I cleaned up a few times,but there were times the dealers would "forget" to take one of my big bets after a loss.Did the fact that they knew if they left it out and I won the next hand,they'd get $5-$10 dollars come into play?Who knows.

I had a dealer pay me for a blackjack, and when he busted out he payed me again with the rest of the line. chalk it up to decent tips.

 

[ChefJJ]

I made more than 500! I sure wish I could find another promo like that again...

No kidding man!!! Heck, you say you do it for a living, so do your thing. I think this entire thread just proves that there are different philosophies for every facet of the game and/or lifestyle surrounding it.

Nobody's wrong on this one...good luck to all (or good variance to ya ). Seriously.

 

[ChefJJ]

You know, I used to play craps 75%, BJ 25% in the past (it's about the opposite these days). I would definitely say that toking at a reasonable pace (like putting them on the pass line for a $1 or $2 here and there) definitely increases accidental payoffs, forgetting to take down a come bet on a crap out, etc. BJ, it's hard to tell for a guy who spreads $5 - $50 on a good day, but obviously some people see the good stuff from it.

 

[ScottH]

No kidding man!!! Heck, you say you do it for a living, so do your thing. I think this entire thread just proves that there are different philosophies for every facet of the game and/or lifestyle surrounding it.

Nobody's wrong on this one...good luck to all (or good variance to ya ). Seriously.

I don't really do it for a living, but it's a part of it. I'm waiting for my partner to turn 21 and we can go from there.

You're right, there are many different philosiphies. I really would tip if I could make it profitable for me and the dealer to do so. At my current betting level, tipping eats up too much of my EV, so if I tip I can't build my bankroll. Like automatic monkey suggested, if done properly, at the green chip level and higher tipping can actually be +EV. That way I can tip and INCREASE my EV, all the while I am also helping the dealer make money. I would love to increase my EV and pay the dealer for it. It's just not really possible at the red chip level. So as my bankroll builds I'll start introducing +EV tips into my game, and then everyone is happy!

 

[shadroch]

Everyone will never be happy.:whip:

 

[Preston]

You know Preston, if you really are trying to turn a profit, be careful with those retipping techniques. Sounds like you could easily end up tipping $10 in about two minutes. If you're really low stakes, you EV might be only $10 per hour.

I'm not trying to knock tipping in general, just wanted to point out that it can add up pretty quickly.

To me it only costs $2 from the way I view it. I wouldn't throw the initial tip bet out there otherwise, and if it loses then I stop there.

 

[Preston]

Nope, it is about 1.5 hours from Fargo. It was my second home last summer, for obvious reasons!

That's the casino I was forced to burn myself out playing because there are literally no casinos around it. So to relate to this thread, to keep my EV above "the cost of playing blackjack'' I had to play long sessions to make any money. With only 4 tables in the "high stakes" room, I could not go unnoticed for the entire summer, but I came really close to getting through the summer without getting backed off. I'll be back next summer, however.

I wish it were in Fargo. If it were I would still be playing there, blending in with the ploppies...

Is it in MN or SD? I think I know which casino youa re talking about.

In Deadwood SD a friend told me they have some good single deck games that pay 3 to 2. problem being the max bet that can be made at any table game is $100.

 

[Preston]

OK, here's the deal people. The dealer asks me nicely to tip a percentage of my wins. That's fine. I would IF they gave me a percentage of my LOSSES BACK! They want me to give them money because they "helped" me win, but they won't do shit for me when I lose! Because if they think they are entitled to a percent of my wins because they dealt the cards, then they are responsible for my losses, and I've never seen a dealer tip a player after they wiped them out of chips.

Does having the dealer knock on your hotel door a few hours later for a night of "adult fun" count?

 

[ChefJJ]

Does having the dealer knock on your hotel door a few hours later for a night of "adult fun" count?

I think that would depend on the dealer's gender! :grin:

 

[halcyon1234]

I think that would depend on the dealer's gender! :grin:

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Blackjack

 

[ScottH]

Is it in MN or SD? I think I know which casino youa re talking about.

In Deadwood SD a friend told me they have some good single deck games that pay 3 to 2. problem being the max bet that can be made at any table game is $100.

It's in MN.

 

[bluewhale]

tipping

having read through this tread, there seems to be a lot of controversy about tipping... especially after scott mentioned he tries to avoid tipping whenever possible.
now a lot of people have said that you should tip, and that people who don't are cheap, sick, inconsiderate, etc. etc....

these people are hippocrites of the worst kind. frist off, tipping is not required. its an added incentive for the person rendering the service. i've heard people say "but dealers make 50% or more of their wage from tipping". true. thats not a reason to tip though, that just shows how cheap the casino is. the casino has put the burden of paying their employees on you, and you are foolish enough to go along with it.

lastly, for those who still think i'm an inconsiderate prick... how many times have you tipped the person at macdonalds? or any other fast food restaurant. or the girl packing your bag at wal-mart? or the person who runs the cash at best buy? those people make next to nothing as well, and are in the service industry. why not tip them? cause theres no social pressure to tip them. the only reason you tip is to ease the social pressure on you. and now you're here telling us to tip and expect us to feel bad about not tipping???

 

[Brutus]

I dug up this clip. (rated r)

put the non-tippers in Mr Pinks place

(Dead link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-341729723832516643&q=%27reservoir+dogs+tip%27&hl=en)

through in your buck like everybody else

 

[ChefJJ]

having read through this tread, there seems to be a lot of controversy about tipping... especially after scott mentioned he tries to avoid tipping whenever possible.
now a lot of people have said that you should tip, and that people who don't are cheap, sick, inconsiderate, etc. etc....

these people are hippocrites of the worst kind. frist off, tipping is not required. its an added incentive for the person rendering the service. i've heard people say "but dealers make 50% or more of their wage from tipping". true. thats not a reason to tip though, that just shows how cheap the casino is. the casino has put the burden of paying their employees on you, and you are foolish enough to go along with it.

lastly, for those who still think i'm an inconsiderate prick... how many times have you tipped the person at macdonalds? or any other fast food restaurant. or the girl packing your bag at wal-mart? or the person who runs the cash at best buy? those people make next to nothing as well, and are in the service industry. why not tip them? cause theres no social pressure to tip them. the only reason you tip is to ease the social pressure on you. and now you're here telling us to tip and expect us to feel bad about not tipping???

Nobody's telling you what to do. Everybody has opinions, ideas, strategies, etc. around here and that's the beauty of the internet. Don't take it personal...and don't tip if you don't want to.

It's all good, but don't pull that "hippocrate" BS. Tipping isn't required, and using a turn signal isn't required in some states, either is being friendly, not pissing on the seat at the K-Mart bathroom, so on and so on. It's cool, we get it, nobody is wrong and nobody is right on this one.

Good luck to all.

P.S. Wal-Mart blows anyways :grin:

 

[EasyRhino]

Just read the bit in Ian Anderson's book where he talks about tipping. Mentions specifically having a $5 tip on a $400 bet, or a $25 tip on a $2,500 bet.

Translated to my terms, that isn't a very big tip at all.

Although, couple weeks ago, a civilian placed two $5 dealer bets. And I briefly though to myself "crap, if both hands win, the dealer just got herself a tip equal to my hourly wage at my real job... and I just got a raise." Both hands lost, but that's not the point of the story.

 

[bluewhale]

I dug up this clip. (rated r)

put the non-tippers in Mr Pinks place

(Dead link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-341729723832516643&q=%27reservoir+dogs+tip%27&hl=en)

through in your buck like everybody else

really great clip actually, and i completely agree with mr. pink. what most people do, is equate someone who doesn't tip, like mr. pink, to someone who is cheap. thats just wrong. i'm willing to change my mind on this issue, but i don't see why i should. can you counter any of the points made by mr. pink. you don't feel guilty when you don't tip at macdonalds, yet you do when you don't at the BJ table? that makes no sense to me. and as for the dealer needing the money... tough cookies, the dude at macdonalds and every other min wage person needs the money, but few our lucky enough to have tip worthy jobs as defined by society.
face it, the only reason you tip is to fit in with the rest of the crowd. hey, i'm no mr. pink, i usually get suckered into tipping too, but i don't look down on people who don't tip.
all i'm saying is i've heard some pretty harsh comments from a few ppl here who think that only cheap people don't tip. so i put it to you, that you are the sick cheap person for not tipping the person who works at macdonalds who makes even less base pay than the dealter you did tip.

 

[shadroch]

bluewhale,
Its really simple. There are jobs people take and don't expect to be tipped and there are jobs people have that do expect to be tipped.There are social norms when it comes to tipping. One tips their mailman,one doesn't tip their local cop.You tip your Minister after a wedding,but not after Sunday Mass.
Trying to use distorted logic to avoid tipping is pathetic,as is calling people hypocrites for stating the obvious.
I've read several dozen books on BJ,and many more than that on gambling and I've yet to see one that tells a recreational gambler that they shouldn't tip.Which books have you read that say its okay?

 

[bluewhale]

bluewhale,
Its really simple. There are jobs people take and don't expect to be tipped and there are jobs people have that do expect to be tipped.There are social norms when it comes to tipping. One tips their mailman,one doesn't tip their local cop.You tip your Minister after a wedding,but not after Sunday Mass.
Trying to use distorted logic to avoid tipping is pathetic,as is calling people hypocrites for stating the obvious.
I've read several dozen books on BJ,and many more than that on gambling and I've yet to see one that tells a recreational gambler that they shouldn't tip.Which books have you read that say its okay?

i agree that dealers expect to get tipped when they take up the job. infact they calculate their pay taking tips into consideration. also its good to know that you can read.....??? all you've pointed out are a bunch of social norms.
what distorted logic? please point this out.
answer this... why should i tip?

 

[ScottH]

Just read the bit in Ian Anderson's book where he talks about tipping. Mentions specifically having a $5 tip on a $400 bet, or a $25 tip on a $2,500 bet.

Translated to my terms, that isn't a very big tip at all.

Although, couple weeks ago, a civilian placed two $5 dealer bets. And I briefly though to myself "crap, if both hands win, the dealer just got herself a tip equal to my hourly wage at my real job... and I just got a raise." Both hands lost, but that's not the point of the story.

Ian Anderson has a very good reason to tip. He is not tipping to "be nice", or because "he ought to". It's strictly a way of gaining cover. He is playing at a high enough level where the tips are a small % of the EV, so it's not costing much to tip, relatively.

ChefJJ has a good approach to thinking about this. Some people think you should tip, some dont, but nobody is right or wrong. The most important thing he mentioned is, don't take it personally! If you think tipping is important then do it! If not, then dont! That simple.