The poor card counter?

[LC Larry]

Life is too short...seriously, if you care that much, you need professional help.

 

[DSchles]

What comes first quotation or question mark?

If the question or exclamation is at the end of the quotation, the question mark or exclamation point comes before the closing quotation mark. ... A question mark can be found outside the quotation mark if the sentence is asking about a quotation, but the quotation itself is not a question.

Yup. Entire rule: periods and commas always inside the quotes, semi-colons and colons always outside, and question marks and exclamation points inside or outside, according to the meaning.

Don

 

[DSchles]

Life is too short...seriously, if you care that much, you need professional help.

Some people in this world take pride in their native language and try to actually be intelligent enough to write it and speak it as carefully as possible. Others, not so much. So, now we know which category you fall into.

Don

 

[xengrifter]

periods and commas always inside the quotes

Not always; I quote a friend who operates a credible business writing class -

"The British place periods and commas AFTER the quotes".​

 

[Dummy]

So, now we now which category you fall into.

Don, Don't you mean no instead of now hear? LoL

 

[DSchles]

Don, Don't you mean no instead of now hear? LoL

Sigh. I give up! Sorry. Thanks. Bad stretch. In too much of a rush. Have to be more careful.

Don

 

[DSchles]

Not always; I quote a friend who operates a credible business writing class -

"The British place periods and commas AFTER the quotes".​

So do the French; I know that. Not relevant to a discussion on an American board.

Don

 

[Ryemo]

Some people in this world take pride in their native language and try to actually be intelligent enough to write it and speak it as carefully as possible. Others, not so much. So, now we know which category you fall into.

Don

I’m always looking to improve my writing, so I find this useful. Thanks.

 

[Hell'nBack]

So do the French; I know that. Not relevant to a discussion on an American board.

Don

ZG is the master of irrelevancy. In the meantime, can you prove America exists?

 

[xengrifter]

So do the French; I know that. Not relevant to a discussion on an American board.

Au contraire, mon ami; it is especially relevant for discussion on an American board.

While the American English tradition of 'punctuation-always-inside' quotes was an early adaptation for printers' convenience, this style has always been recognized as frequently illogical; hence the British English flexibility of placing punctuation inside or outside quotes, depending on context, is considered the "logical method".

A clear trend away from traditional American English method for this so-called rule is increasingly apparent because logic is more compelling than tradition.

For example, Language, the journal of the Linguistic Society of North America, has now embraced the "British way". The first item under "Punctuation" in its Style Sheet now says:

The second member of a pair of quotation marks should precede any other adjacent mark of punctuation, unless the other mark is part of the quoted matter: The word means `cart', not `horse'. He writes, `This is false.' ​

Far and away, the greatest source-example of logical quote-punctuation today is found in Wikipedia, which was started by two Americans. Wikipedia's style guide notes that ...

"logical punctuation … is used here because it is deemed to be more in keeping with the principle of minimal change." That is, if you put a period or comma inside quotation marks, you are wrongly suggesting that the period or comma is part of the quoted material, and thus you have "changed" it.​

June Casagrande, author of The Best Punctuation Book, Period has opined: "I think our American punctuation-always-inside is beginning to fail because it's hard to follow; and that makes it hard to continually justify."

 

[bjarg]

Xengrifter, are you the real zengrifter?

 

[mcallister3200]

Forsooth!

 

[Dummy]

Don's point is when you are participating in a discussion in a certain language and country the conventions of that country's language usage is the correct way to do things. When in Rome...

 

[xengrifter]

When in Rome...

... our coventions need no longer cling to 18th century obsolescence.

 

[Dummy]

... our coventions need no longer cling to 18th century obsolescence.

I don't see what this has to do with Don's point. If you want to post like you are ignorant, there is nothing wrong with that. You have every right to do so. But acting like doing so is the correct way to do things is wrong. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

You remind me of one of the people that like free speech, but fail to understand that what you say with that freedom may still have consequences. Free speech means you have the right to say almost anything you want. It doesn't mean that saying something can not get you fired, or banned from a forum, or have any other consequences that anyone sees fit to levy.

 

[DSchles]

June Casagrande, author of The Best Punctuation Book, Period has opined: "I think our American punctuation-always-inside is beginning to fail because it's hard to follow; and that makes it hard to continually justify."[/QUOTE]

You're not teaching me anything. Meanwhile, the sources you quote aren't exactly the Chicago Manual of Style or the New York Times or AP Style Sheet. Quote the sources that make you happy. I'll stay with mine.

Don

 

[xengrifter]

You're not teaching me anything. Meanwhile, the sources you quote aren't exactly the Chicago Manual of Style or the New York Times or AP Style Sheet.

Sincerely, it was not my intent to teach the master (old dogs and all that). Suffice that most, not all, major US copy-editor environs rigidly (dare I say blindly?) adhere to CMS, but today's english-speaking boards, like language itself, are clearly EVOLVING. Logic trumps tradition.

 

[Midwest Player]

"I also think once you mentioned you had one losing year in your life."

At the time, it was true.

Don

So since then can we assume you had at least another losing year in your life?

 

[DSchles]

So since then can we assume you had at least another losing year in your life?

Yup.

Don

 

[KewlJ]

Yeah, but that means nothings since we have no idea how much Don plays these days or ever. I mean suppose he only plays 2-3 times a year now. It would be pretty easy to experience negative variance with such a small sample size.

I would love to know more about Don's playing experience and results, but he has made it clear he doesn't wish to share that stuff.