Weekend Warriors

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
Canceler said:
Yeah, just another reason why I was never too much into any kind of team thing.
same here i guess. i mean i just had a hunch it could be dicey. lol. it's like it would take some tremendous trust with business partners or friends. could it would seem put a real test to friendship lol.
Canceler said:
Oh oh. I missed the part about no indices, too. Way back when I said I was going to use KO Preferred... That does imply a certain set of indices. Oops.
Why would we not use indices?
i think to make the parameters simpiler for Kasi's bjinfoteam spread sheet.
that way for one thing more people could play experienced or not just using basic strategy.
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
I'm still trying to figure out what this thread is all about! zg
:rolleyes: i'm your age and i'm still trying to figure out what my life is all about. but that doesn't mean i think it's voodoo or meaningless lol. but then again it might be.
truthfully when the team came up with the idea for the thread and when i fatefully posted it i'm not really sure i had it figured it out either.
but i guess you could say it's discussing card counting strategies for blackjack.
historicaly the thread is an offshoot of a thread from the voodoo forum http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=9818
and
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=10135
which was an offshoot from a thread in the general blackjack forum.
the short and quick of it is over discussions over in voodoo in my opinion the current team members came to the consensus that what we were doing (ie. at that time playing a fun contest) was not entirely voodoo and further more that elements of it were less voodoo than anything that has been posted in the orthodox forums.
so what are we doing and what does it mean? of course i can only give my opinion. other's on the team can, have and may if they wish give their views.
to just look at the thread, see it and judge it for your self is simple enough. it might mean lots of differant things to a lot of differant people from novice to experienced professional. but from my perspective it's a wide open thread that anyone can participate by joining in with playing hands, giving opinions of what the heck is happenning. it's currently got two computer programmers participating. there is a wealth of knowledge right there that i've little doubt great discussions with respect to simulation software can spawn from. then in my case and in jj's case we are using cvbj and of course QFIT posts here on BlackjackInfo.com so there you have the potential for great knowledge, experience and information. trust me i'm in no way connected or profiting in anyway by QFIT or k_c's software but just let me say that if from seeing the capabilities of tdca and cvbj anyone chooses to furture look into that software then i'd say the thread right there has served a good purpose in affording that person a tremendous avenue for understanding and becoming more proficient in their qwest with blackjack and card counting.
it's to me that this thread holds a lot of hidden potential beyond what is currently seen in the posts or what is likely to be seen in future posts. for just what i know is that cvbj with it's volumnous logs, charts and statistics can provide loads and loads of answers and information with respect to posts that have been made. in short there is much more that can be said than the scoreboard posts should anyone care to ask or comment. further more Kasi has afforded us with several spread sheets that can afford great insight into what the heck is going on with the 'meaningless' samples that are being posted.
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/attachment.php?attachmentid=436&d=1212799440
and
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/attachment.php?attachmentid=368&d=1211847035
with these spread sheets one can see a wealth of information that is relevant to this particular game the warriour's are comming up against.
the favorite of it to me is how you can see and know the behaviour of standard deviation as the play ensues. lol ever wonder about luck and how lucky or unlucky you are. these sheets can show you.
so but just would say one more thing even though i believe i could say more or have overlooked saying other things. that being that i think it's a postings of interest from the perspective of not just say an individual counter but from the perspective of a team aspect. the thread is right there in your face and who ever cares to look can see the progress of the participants. actually see what happens (with potential to see and know more) when a card counter or a team of card counters plays blackjack.
thanks for asking zen! sorry i didn't have much to say lol but hopefully others will chime in.
 

Canceler

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
I'm still trying to figure out what this thread is all about! zg
I was doubtful about the point of this at the beginning. Even so, I spent a week building my own software so I could participate. Now I’ve played almost 14,000 hands, and am actually down a few imaginary dollars. And for what?

The main thing is that it led to me getting Kasi's spreadsheet, which, for me, was huge. And it is interesting to see the differences in our results. Sagefr0g is 60K ahead, and I have a small loss, even though we’re playing the same game. (Well, Mr. Fr0g is using HiLo, and I’m using KO, but that’s no big deal.)

There may be some educational value for others. Maybe some new counter, who thinks he’s on the road to riches, will see my charts and realize that even with a 1-24 spread, zero heat, and proper play (like a good little robot), you can still have results that suck for a long, long time.

So why keep playing? Right now I’m shooting for achieving a respectable result. Or maybe I’ll end up illustrating 3 or 4 SDs on the wrong side of the curve. :eek: It’s good counting practice. And even though we’re supposed to be a team, there’s still a small element of competition, which makes it fun.
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
Canceler said:
I was doubtful about the point of this at the beginning. Even so, I spent a week building my own software so I could participate. Now I’ve played almost 14,000 hands, and am actually down a few imaginary dollars. And for what?

The main thing is that it led to me getting Kasi's spreadsheet, which, for me, was huge. And it is interesting to see the differences in our results. Sagefr0g is 60K ahead, and I have a small loss, even though we’re playing the same game. (Well, Mr. Fr0g is using HiLo, and I’m using KO, but that’s no big deal.)

There may be some educational value for others. Maybe some new counter, who thinks he’s on the road to riches, will see my charts and realize that even with a 1-24 spread, zero heat, and proper play (like a good little robot), you can still have results that suck for a long, long time.

So why keep playing? Right now I’m shooting for achieving a respectable result. Or maybe I’ll end up illustrating 3 or 4 SDs on the wrong side of the curve. :eek: It’s good counting practice. And even though we’re supposed to be a team, there’s still a small element of competition, which makes it fun.
i like your points Canceler. and like you say Kasi's spreadsheet is really something. like looking at it below we can have an idea of our N0. so it's what about 44,000 rounds. and here we are already about 30,000 hands or so. i mean yeah zen's got a point about all this meaningless data. thing is won't be long we'll approach reaching our N0 as a team. that figure has some significance. so it's like to me a history of what happened on the way to the magical land of N0 lol. hey what we're doing shows what happended on the way that's something darned hard for a card counter to see, know and experience after years or so of playing in a real casino. at the very least it give one an idea of all the things going on shrouded by time, lack of memory or ability to record what happended in real play.
 

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jack.jackson

Well-Known Member
Canceler said:
And even though we’re supposed to be a team, there’s still a small element of competition, which makes it fun
.

OH YA, And Im still confident that I will be able to catch, sage-the-posinous-frog:whip:

Anything goes!
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
jack said:
.

OH YA, And Im still confident that I will be able to catch, sage-the-posinous-frog:whip:

Anything goes!
I know...he acts one waybowfrog.gif, but ya go to pik him up and
frog1.gif
he acts another way! Lol
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
sagefr0g said:
up $63,872.00 6,575 hands
Maybe the hardest thing is getting started.

I'm off the "n/a" lol.

15 hands +$425

Then I stood on a 7 and aborted shoe lol.

Woo-hoo! lmao.
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
Canceler said:
Yeah, just another reason why I was never too much into any kind of team thing.
That made me wonder about the whole aspect of actually running a team lol.

Maybe everybody get equal splits when roll doubled even if you lost money? Maybe somewhat dependent on how long you played?

I have no friggin clue lol.


Indexes are fine Wise One - if you're really curious about it and think you can sim however you're playing or even just to establish a range, go for it.

Just copy stuff, put in Norm's freq etc for the new sim etc and it should be close. O yeah - good job on the 4 SD lol.

That's the real big purpose of this stuff - learning what to expect and measuring your luck etc for the game of one's choice and how to maybe generally anyway apply the summary stuff from a sim.
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
Indexes are fine Wise One - if you're really curious about it and think you can sim however you're playing or even just to establish a range, go for it.

Just copy stuff, put in Norm's freq etc for the new sim etc and it should be close. O yeah - good job on the 4 SD lol.

That's the real big purpose of this stuff - learning what to expect and measuring your luck etc for the game of one's choice and how to maybe generally anyway apply the summary stuff from a sim.
:angel:
that's cool. quick question on that. like i noticed in the wisefrog spread sheet you titled standard deviation and the bjinfoteam spread sheet you titled variance. so question is i'm wondering depending upon which spread sheet i use or which data source i use if i'd need to convert from like variance to standard deviation or vice-a-versa? :confused:
see two images below... on the right lol.

Kasi said:
Maybe the hardest thing is getting started.

I'm off the "n/a" lol.

15 hands +$425

Then I stood on a 7 and aborted shoe lol.

Woo-hoo! lmao.
somebody let Kasi off the bench!
.......................................................you stood on a 7 and aborted shoe ?
thouht this was sposed to be play-all? :confused:
 

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sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
score board

Weekend Warriors:

Rules:6D,S17,DA2,DAS,/HA-.40

Conditions:Headsup,Playall,80%,Pen,100KBR


Warriors:

-----------Dollars.........Hands played

Sagefrog//+63,872$......6,575
Canceler//-551.50$.....13,749
Ghostrider+18,725$.....10,231
Aslan////+2,451$..........897
K_C/////+750$............91
Kasi/////425$.............15

____________________________

Total:+85,671.50$.......31,558

your rowing like a bunch of girls, row hard mates we're almost to N0 ! ups sorry girl21 & shed ! wanna play? :eek:
 

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Kasi

Well-Known Member
sagefr0g said:
...quick question on that. like i noticed in the wisefrog spread sheet you titled standard deviation and the bjinfoteam spread sheet you titled variance. so question is i'm wondering depending upon which spread sheet i use or which data source i use if i'd need to convert from like variance to standard deviation or vice-a-versa?
Good catch Wise One. If your team sheet has the CVCX sims, one for exact card TC calculation and one for full deck estimation TC, the columns labeled variance are mis-labeled. They are really SD since that's what CVCX does and of course are labeled as such in his sims. Likewise for Don's tables since CVCX produced them lol.

For some reason Powersim chooses to output variance at each TC rather than SD. Maybe because, in a way, it's simpler since it's additive. Hands * $varaince per hand=total $ variance. Take the square root and it's 1 SD in dollars.

Like kind of amazing/scary that your 6575 hands have had over $330,000,000 of total variance lol.

If your team sheet does have the CVCX sims in it, you'll notice a difference in the formula for SD units per hand compared to Powersim where the variance is only in there once for Psim but twice for CVCX since SD*SD=variance.

Not to mention like I don't struggle with this stuff too. Like wonging seems to screw it up. Like it seems sims think in per hour alot whereas I like per hand. Like when you had a few players and I wondered about 70/hands/hr. Like I really just mess with it all until I duplicate a sim result lol. But sometimes I'm not sure what it means like is the per hand stuff adjusted for 25 hands an hour or is it per physical hand played. I get that the the goal is the on ethat maximizes per hour winnings rather than per hand winnings but I get confused too lol.

Anyway I hit the wrong button, I mean heat was coming lol. But it i splay-all. I'm using the Trainer here so I'm cheating knowing cards dealt lol.
 

jack.jackson

Well-Known Member
Weekend Warriors:

Rules:6D,S17,DA2,DAS,/HA-.40

Conditions:Headsup,Playall,80%,Pen,100KBR


Warriors:

-----------Dollars.........Hands played

Sagefrog//+63,872$......6,575
Canceler//-551.50$.....13,749
Ghostrider+21,537$.....11,269
Aslan////+2,451$..........897
K_C/////+750$............91
Kasi/////425$.............15

____________________________

Total:+88,484$.......32,596
 
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