'Dice Control' Denounced

[GentleManSteve]

I can imagine it will suffer some but I plan practicing for that. I will be putting a peace of tape in front of the backing and practice hitting right in front of the pyramid thing. and find a place I can hit it. I will try it right in front of the points of the pyramids and beside them and practice hitting the then strip where there is no pyramid backing and go from there. I will practice on it all before trying it on big money. and I can go and practice on the tables but put the minimum down and practice that way also.

 

[aslan]

Yeah, your results are gonna tank when you put a real casino surface in there. That back wall is gonna eat up all of your control. Lots of people can control the dice in a box, but it's nearly impossible at most casinos.

They say you should aim to hit the bottom of the pyramids where the base and wall (pyramids) meet with backspin to reduce the amount of bounce back. I suspect that anyone who can do this consistently with both dice in tandem will be an obvious flag to the house of an advantage player, or at least a would-be AP. I suppose if the house does not believe in DC, then they might just shrug it off as a good imitation of what an AP would look like if DC were possible. But either way, it's a flag if you throw well--I mean, you will attract attention compared to the ordinary dice-flying-every-which-way player. Lol

 

[GentleManSteve]

They teach to hit about 6 inches infront of the wall and bounce onto it. It took the Dominator about 8-9 months to be good enough to start winning good. I find it best to hit right at the wall or foam. I will have to practice with a real practice table and see if I can get the same result I do now.

 

[moo321]

They teach to hit about 6 inches infront of the wall and bounce onto it. It took the Dominator about 8-9 months to be good enough to start winning good. I find it best to hit right at the wall or foam. I will have to practice with a real practice table and see if I can get the same result I do now.

This does not sound right. I've always heard that you want to hit at the base of the wall, because the wall has much less opportunity to influence the dice. But, again, I think you're gonna have to be an absolute ninja to control the dice coming off of that wall.

 

[Kasi]

....and see if I can get the same result I do now.

What result is that lol.

I don't know, whatever you r doing, why don't you/anyone just pick one thing, like "I never/always want to roll a 7", or whatever, and make a 1000 throws with that goal. And let us know how many 7's you rolled. It's a start.

At least you're not gambling while you're practicing

 

[moo321]

What result is that lol.

I don't know, whatever you r doing, why don't you/anyone just pick one thing, like "I never/always want to roll a 7", or whatever, and make a 1000 throws with that goal. And let us know how many 7's you rolled. It's a start.

At least you're not gambling while you're practicing

I suspect it's because no one can do this. And anyone who can, isn't talking about it on the internet.

 

[aslan]

I suspect it's because no one can do this. And anyone who can, isn't talking about it on the internet.

That's an excellent point. Once I know I've got it, I don't want to alert the entire gaming world, "Here I come!" If you know you can do it, it may be the biggest discovery of your entire life! And one best kept close to the vest.

 

[GentleManSteve]

That's an excellent point. Once I know I've got it, I don't want to alert the entire gaming world, "Here I come!" If you know you can do it, it may be the biggest discovery of your entire life! And one best kept close to the vest.

A point I have already talked about. I can most of the time hit my point numbers before crapping out. That is the results I get now. I can hit my hard numbers on ocassion. I can hit them before crapping out but the hard numbers are a one roll bet not until you crap out. I think that was what I was told anyway

I think with the practice that the Dominator did I can do good also. He practiced 8 to 9 hours a day 7 days a week. Now if I can do that I believe I can get that good.

As for as hitting at the base of the wall. I think I have heard the dominator say about 6 to 8 inches from the wall with a high pitch so it bounces better and with minimum force.

 

[aslan]

As for as hitting at the base of the wall. I think I have heard the dominator say about 6 to 8 inches from the wall with a high pitch so it bounces better and with minimum force.

Whereas Snyder said a lower trajectory (more horizontal) with enough backspin so as to keep the dice from rebounding far after hitting the wall. It appears that the lesson of this is that there is more than one way to peel an onion (I don't like the cat metaphor).

 

[GentleManSteve]

Yes I know. I find it easier to hit right at the base also but want to learn both ways so I can decide what way is better. They say The Dominator is the best but I do not think he is because they are a few that always does better in competitions then he does. I think he is just more known than most cause he went against the grain and went crazy with getting attention and wanted to let people know how good he was but there have been people doing this since the 70s I know of but probably longer than that. Chris paliki or how ever you say his name made a way to control the throw a little better and was the one who taught The Domninator and wanted to keep it under wraps so it wouldn't get out about it but the Dominator went and formed a team with another guy that and they just went stupid with it and put everybody on the alert but I think people still believe it can not be done. Yes I think a lot of people have different ways of doing things. I also find it better to hit at the base but have to get the book and DVD so I can see how Chris and the Dominator have to say so I can not only do it the way I been doing it but try different ways to see what is best for me. As of now I find it best to hit the base of the way or bounce the dice and hit the wall while the dice is coming back down from the bounce. Both of those ways work but I have to work with it more so I can get a good way that I can practice and not sway from the way I do it.

Whereas Snyder said a lower trajectory (more horizontal) with enough backspin so as to keep the dice from rebounding far after hitting the wall. It appears that the lesson of this is that there is more than one way to peel an onion (I don't like the cat metaphor).

 

[Kasi]

I suspect it's because no one can do this. And anyone who can, isn't talking about it on the internet.

Probably thousands and thousands out there winning fortunes but just won't talk about it.

I'm sure you know that elephants have pink eyes so they can hide in cherry trees. I've never seen one in a cherry tree, have you?, so obviously it works

 

[Kasi]

...but want to learn both ways so I can decide what way is better. They say The Dominator is the best but I do not think he is because they are a few that always does better in competitions then he does.

How will you know which way is better?

Are you seriously saying they have "dice-control" competitions?

If so, how do they work?

Does Vegas even let you touch the dice with both hands?

 

[GentleManSteve]

How will you know which way is better?

Are you seriously saying they have "dice-control" competitions?

If so, how do they work?

Does Vegas even let you touch the dice with both hands?

How will you know which way is better?

I do it bothways now but I have to get the Dominator's book and Chris palinkies book on how to bounce it with minimum force and see how I adapt to it. I will know by how I perform with it. I perform good with bouncing and hitting at the base but I want to make sure I am doing it properly so I am going to get the books and a good practice table with real pyramid backing like the ones in Casinos and practice like that. And work on each to see which one I perform better doing. Some people mistake dice control as hitting what you want but mainly it is not hitting what you do not want and that is sevens. They do not claim to be able to get what the want they train not to roll a seven.

Are you seriously saying they have "dice-control" competitions?

Do not quote me on this cause it is not anything I witnessed but have heard that they indeed do. But it is kept under wraps. It is a competition to see how many rolls they can do before they seven out. Again it isn't anything I witness.

Does Vegas even let you touch the dice with both hands?

No you can use only one hand to handle the dice. You set the dice on the table with one hand and pick them up with the same hand you set them and throw them with the same hand. It is against the rules to use both hands to handle the dice. They do it like this to make it harder for people to change the dice with their own cheating dice.

Just remember that dice control is not rolling what you want it is avoiding the seven till you get what you want.

Please do not get it wrong. That is why nobody really believes it can be done because they get the wrong impression of what they are really doing. They set the dice in away as not to roll the seven but having a better chance of getting the numbers they want.

 

[moo321]

Please do not get it wrong. That is why nobody really believes it can be done because they get the wrong impression of what they are really doing. They set the dice in away as not to roll the seven but having a better chance of getting the numbers they want.

No, we believe it can't be done because there is no proof of any kind whatsoever. You won't even sim 1000 rolls and post the results.

 

[GentleManSteve]

No, we believe it can't be done because there is no proof of any kind whatsoever. You won't even sim 1000 rolls and post the results.

I do not want to be misleading on my performance. I have said already I do not have the correct backing like the Casinos have so it would be misleading for me to post on how well I do it now. I will post when I get a practice table that has the same pyramid backing as the casinos have. But to do so now would be misleading on what I could do on a real pyramid backing.

If I post my results I want it to be truthful and not be misleading in anyway. I do not try to throw till I get a seven. I pick a number I want to try to get and majority of the time I get that number before rolling a seven. Like I said before I have only been doing this for a little over a week. I am still learning and practicing with it. It took the Dominator between 8-9 months before he could go to the casinos and win at what he practice for. I know it will take longer for me cause I am a slow learner but I will put my results up after I get a practice table that has the same backing as most casinos have.

I just do not want to be misleading in any way. I will say if I can do it satisfactory or not with the pyramid backing.

I am also looking to making my own full size craps table also to practice one as well and if you like I will post picture of my build but that will not be anytime soon cause I have to wait till I have some money to that with. I am just going to get a practice table to begin with and go from there.

I have found free plans for a craps table. They are plans for other tables as well but mainly I want to build a craps table.

 

[Kasi]

I do not want to be misleading on my performance. I have said already I do not have the correct backing like the Casinos have so it would be misleading for me to post on how well I do it now. I will post when I get a practice table that has the same pyramid backing as the casinos have. But to do so now would be misleading on what I could do on a real pyramid backing.

Well, I guess you've gathered by now that I happen to be of the opinion that I don't really think such a thing is possible but so what.

I trust you - I'm just suggesting before you spend money on this, let alone weeks and months, maybe years of practice, even if you do not have this pyramid backing stuff, from which I assume whatever you are doing now likely makes it even more likely that you can control the dice compared to once you start practicing on a 14-foot craps table, or even 12 foot if some of them are smaller like that, that you record what you got.

Like I said, if your goal is to not roll a 7, that's fine. Just record the throws after you've made a point or whatever. Whatever - just record the throws you make with a stated goal. If you have different goals from time to time, roll a 7, don't roll a 7, make a die land on an axis, etc, just record all throws with that goal.

At worst, it can't hurt to have a methodology going forward by which you can measure whether your results are explained by random luck or are so unlikely to have been produced by random luck that the explanation of influencing the result becomes convincing.

Have you already convinced yourself, like it maybe seems to me, that you have succeded with whatever you're doing now? After a week? If so, what has convinced you it's time to invest money in this project?

Hope you're using those precision-milled transparent Vegas dice for practice. Surely, your spots are at least not ground out!?

Hey, have fun. Pursue your dreams. Whether you fail or succeed, you'll likely learn something in the process.

At least I insisted on a cup with a trip wire in it when playing backgammon so people couldn't just slide them out without even spinning Heck just control that and you could make a fortune.

Used 2 different colored dies too so at least I'd know it wasn't, or was, the same one that kept having a six!

Insisted on rounded corners too. Don't know why Vegas insists on cubes.

Hey, convince me, and you have an investor. Won't play backgammon with you though

I forgot - if so, you likely won't be talking about it and certainly wouldn't need an investor lol.

 

[GentleManSteve]

Well, I guess you've gathered by now that I happen to be of the opinion that I don't really think such a thing is possible but so what.

I trust you - I'm just suggesting before you spend money on this, let alone weeks and months, maybe years of practice, even if you do not have this pyramid backing stuff, from which I assume whatever you are doing now likely makes it even more likely that you can control the dice compared to once you start practicing on a 14-foot craps table, or even 12 foot if some of them are smaller like that, that you record what you got.

Like I said, if your goal is to not roll a 7, that's fine. Just record the throws after you've made a point or whatever. Whatever - just record the throws you make with a stated goal. If you have different goals from time to time, roll a 7, don't roll a 7, make a die land on an axis, etc, just record all throws with that goal.

At worst, it can't hurt to have a methodology going forward by which you can measure whether your results are explained by random luck or are so unlikely to have been produced by random luck that the explanation of influencing the result becomes convincing.

Have you already convinced yourself, like it maybe seems to me, that you have succeded with whatever you're doing now? After a week? If so, what has convinced you it's time to invest money in this project?

Hope you're using those precision-milled transparent Vegas dice for practice. Surely, your spots are at least not ground out!?

Hey, have fun. Pursue your dreams. Whether you fail or succeed, you'll likely learn something in the process.

At least I insisted on a cup with a trip wire in it when playing backgammon so people couldn't just slide them out without even spinning Heck just control that and you could make a fortune.

Used 2 different colored dies too so at least I'd know it wasn't, or was, the same one that kept having a six!

Insisted on rounded corners too. Don't know why Vegas insists on cubes.

Hey, convince me, and you have an investor. Won't play backgammon with you though

I forgot - if so, you likely won't be talking about it and certainly wouldn't need an investor lol.

Have you already convinced yourself, like it maybe seems to me, that you have succeded with whatever you're doing now? After a week?

I have improved with how I do it now yes but not fully convinced that I am good enough yet to step into a Casino. I get kind of off set around crowds and it would throw off my game a little. Plus I want to know how to do it right and how to perform like most that have done it before. I am going to buy Chris's book and the Dominator's book to begin with to see how I do with them. I think they sell them at Target "The department stores".

After a week?

I have improved well enough to see a difference in the more times I throw without hitting the 7.

If so, what has convinced you it's time to invest money in this project?

I have improved with it mainly and that has some promises. I would like to get good enough to say you want to see a six and roll a six LOL, but that isn't what they do but would love to be able to do that. Roll what I want that is. Not roll till I get lucky and hit it without sevening out. I feel I can get that good. Plus I will be making me a subliminal recording also. They have a hynosis cd I am going to get but I am going to make a subliminal one also

Hope you're using those precision-milled transparent Vegas dice for practice. Surely, your spots are at least not ground out!?

Not yet. I have been using crappy Yahtzee dice. I want to get the real deal as well also. No crappy stuff. But I feel I will get better with the real dice cause the Yahtzee dice is really to small to get used to. That will just be icing on the cake.

As for an investor if I get good enough to prove I am good. Like I said I want to be good enough to roll what I want to but want to be good enough to get money to LOL

 

[zengrifter]

Are you seriously saying they have "dice-control" competitions?

If so, how do they work?

Like a cross between competition darts and horseshoes. zg

 

[runningaces]

I am a believer 100% that a good controlled shooter in dice will have better results than a random shooter. I know alot of you on here disagree with this gentlesteve poster, I think alot of you are misunderstanding the fact that what he is trying to say is that a good controlled shooter can avoid throwing a 7 more than a random shooter. And is he is DEAD right on this. I have witnessed this myself in casinos, I always try to find a control shooter when I look to get into a dice game.

Of course there are bad control shooters as well, these people may not have any better results than a random shooter, but I will give you all 1 example of what I experienced at a Vegas strip casino over Super Bowl weekend. This guy was standing next to stick, lining the dice up on all the hard ways, he rolled aprox. 20 minutes, hit maybe 5-6 points, nailed the numbers hard. Here's the kicker, on the come out roll he would have the dice on 43 or a 7 on top instead of the hard ways, he nailed 7's on the come out like they were going out of style. I seen the documentary on the Dominator on the BIO channel, was skeptical then I witnessed this guy and now I believe that person that is good at controlling the dice can in FACT thow more rolls without a 7 than a random shooter.

 

[aslan]

I am a believer 100% that a good controlled shooter in dice will have better results than a random shooter. I know alot of you on here disagree with this gentlesteve poster, I think alot of you are misunderstanding the fact that what he is trying to say is that a good controlled shooter can avoid throwing a 7 more than a random shooter. And is he is DEAD right on this. I have witnessed this myself in casinos, I always try to find a control shooter when I look to get into a dice game.

Of course there are bad control shooters as well, these people may not have any better results than a random shooter, but I will give you all 1 example of what I experienced at a Vegas strip casino over Super Bowl weekend. This guy was standing next to stick, lining the dice up on all the hard ways, he rolled aprox. 20 minutes, hit maybe 5-6 points, nailed the numbers hard. Here's the kicker, on the come out roll he would have the dice on 43 or a 7 on top instead of the hard ways, he nailed 7's on the come out like they were going out of style. I seen the documentary on the Dominator on the BIO channel, was skeptical then I witnessed this guy and now I believe that person that is good at controlling the dice can in FACT thow more rolls without a 7 than a random shooter.

I do the same as you. But I don't think you can declare someone a good control shooter because he held the dice for an hour. A rank amateur can do the same thing. If you have to choose between one or the other, naturally the control shooter is the best choice. If there is anything at all to DC, this gives you at least the possibility of capitalizing on it. In general, I don't see many who could qualify as even a fake control shooter. They carefully set, they look so cool, and then they fling the dice, one this way, the other that way, one hits the backstop and one hits the deck. Fore! Lol