'Dice Control' Denounced

[aslan]

Just wondering if you get out and play that much these days?

Oh, yes! After retiring from pool for 28 years, I picked up my cue again in 2000 in anticipation of retirement from my job. I've been playing fairly regularly ever since. I retired in 2003.

 

[Bill Cashman]

12 ways to make a 7?????

OK thanks. I am still learning and have found out if you set for the hard numbers then you have a you still have a 1 - 5 chances of hitting a 7 and if you stay on the axis of the dice.

I think people miss the point by saying you have a 1-6 chances of hitting the 7. It is much lower than that. I will have to explain because I know people will not see my logic. You really have 12 ways of hitting a seven with two dice.

Do anybody here know why?

I hope I am not the only one who sees this logic. It is simple logic.

Please explain your simple logic that a 7 can be made 12 ways.

 

[GentleManSteve]

Right. Just look at the miraculous feats executed by circus performers on the high wire, trapeze, and other venues. They are astounding. And it all starts with ordinary people practicing small feats, then slowly working them into larger feats, off the ground and finally without a net. They don't get good overnight. It takes years of dedication and practice. When I started playing pool many years ago, I had trouble getting the cue ball to hit the object ball. I had very poor eye-hand coordination. Now people say things like, "It's easy for you. You're a natural!" I have to laugh.

Yes I think you get the picture. If a beginner does well people want to say it is beginners luck. But that comes to sports and stuff like that. Being able to throw dice doesn't take feats of strength but requires a soft throw that will not make the dice bounce as much after hitting the table. But still you should practice on the line of keeping the dice on their axis. So then it doesn't matter if they bounce. You have to practice hitting them squarely so they do not like bounce off to the side but forward and backward off the wall. But takes practice, months of practice to get good where you know how to throw them so they hit squarely and not bounce off to the side but straight up and back down on the table. I am better and hope to get where I can pretty much get what I want. I can get the point numbers but I want to be able to get them sooner then I do. I can hit my hard numbers but want to hit them more often so if I bet on them I can win with a profit

 

[moo321]

All they care about is the tips> All the other BJ tables were 8 decks so I tried just counting the A & 5 . There must have been some of the worst BJ players in in the world on this cruise. Not a single person knew basic BJ . You name every bad play in the book and they did it . YES! It was like going to Disneyland but, I did not take advantage of it. Maybe next time... POGO

I'm going on this cruise immediately.

 

[GentleManSteve]

Please explain your simple logic that a 7 can be made 12 ways.

Sorry I made a mistake on my calculations.

My simple logic is stupid logic. LOL:laugh:

 

[pogostick]

Yes I think you get the picture. If a beginner does well people want to say it is beginners luck. But that comes to sports and stuff like that. Being able to throw dice doesn't take feats of strength but requires a soft throw that will not make the dice bounce as much after hitting the table. But still you should practice on the line of keeping the dice on their axis. So then it doesn't matter if they bounce. You have to practice hitting them squarely so they do not like bounce off to the side but forward and backward off the wall. But takes practice, months of practice to get good where you know how to throw them so they hit squarely and not bounce off to the side but straight up and back down on the table. I am better and hope to get where I can pretty much get what I want. I can get the point numbers but I want to be able to get them sooner then I do. I can hit my hard numbers but want to hit them more often so if I bet on them I can win with a profit

I think I would concentrate on not throwing the 7 & play numbers . Forget about the hard ways. Pogo

 

[pogostick]

I'm going on this cruise immediately.

There are so many bad players on any given cruise that a counter will not draw attention .

 

[GentleManSteve]

I think I would concentrate on not throwing the 7 & play numbers . Forget about the hard ways. Pogo

That is mostly what I practice for. For making the point numbers. I practice others very little but I will practice on them all because I am in no hurry to get to the casinos so I will practice for awhile before I go. I want to be fully convinced that I will not loose my but. I want to know to myself I am good enough to win before betting and not even think twice about if I could win or not.

 

[jack.jackson]

Oh, yes! After retiring from pool for 28 years, I picked up my cue again in 2000 in anticipation of retirement from my job. I've been playing fairly regularly ever since. I retired in 2003.

What size table do you prefer?

 

[GentleManSteve]

I wonder when English was first told on how to control the Cue ball if most put it off as a none believer.

I wonder the first person that said he could control the cue ball with something he called English if people said no way that can be done.

How in the world are you going make the cue ball go around balls on the table and hit the right ones that is surrounded by other balls?

I bet when it was first announced people was just as skeptic as Dice control.

I pretty much bet the was people heard about it then threw it off as none sense.

How about you all; you think it was just as unbelievable to somebody that first heard of putting English on a cue ball that they was an unbeliever?

 

[aslan]

What size table do you prefer?

Four and a half by nine.

 

[moo321]

I wonder when English was first told on how to control the Cue ball if most put it off as a none believer.

I wonder the first person that said he could control the cue ball with something he called English if people said no way that can be done.

How in the world are you going make the cue ball go around balls on the table and hit the right ones that is surrounded by other balls?

I bet when it was first announced people was just as skeptic as Dice control.

I pretty much bet the was people heard about it then threw it off as none sense.

How about you all; you think it was just as unbelievable to somebody that first heard of putting English on a cue ball that they was an unbeliever?

Dude, post some results and we'll believe you. That's all it takes. 1000 throws, record it, let us know what happens. Couple hours of your time.

 

[aslan]

Dude, post some results and we'll believe you. That's all it takes. 1000 throws, record it, let us know what happens. Couple hours of your time.

If he has proof, he should post it by PM to those he feels comfortable revealing such matters. Why would we want to prove to casinos that they've been wrong to discount the possibility of dice control?

 

[la_dee_daa]

iv been playing around with a couple dice from a poker chip set. Throwing them around and finally got them to stick together rotating on the same axis. It looked pretty sexy if i do say so. so dice control possible maybe? difficult yes!
going to try it a little more maybe if i can do it consistantly il test some results, don't count on this anytime soon.

:cow:

 

[aslan]

iv been playing around with a couple dice from a poker chip set. Throwing them around and finally got them to stick together rotating on the same axis. It looked pretty sexy if i do say so. so dice control possible maybe? difficult yes!
going to try it a little more maybe if i can do it consistantly il test some results, don't count on this anytime soon.

:cow:

Same here. All my good intentions have so far not materialized. Lol It takes a heap of work, which is difficult enough if the goal is known to be achievable, not alone, if it it is possibly not doable. Lol

 

[zengrifter]

What is the debate? Dice control IS.
Its like throwing darts, takes a lot of practice. zg

 

[aslan]

What is the debate? Dice control IS.
Its like throwing darts, takes a lot of practice. zg

Well, that's what I believe. But I haven't got there yet. I'm only taking others' words for it, plus it seems plausible judging from skills possessed by others in various fields of endeavor. Do you think Titanic Thompson could really throw a key into a lock? Haha! I'll bet he could.

 

[bj bob]

What is the debate? Dice control IS....

.... a conspiracy perpetuated by the evil gaming industrial machine to disseminate the illusion that one can, in fact beat the game of craps after countless hours and huge monetary losses incurred by the masses of pathetic disillusioned dice shooters seeking imaginary paths to higher economic status.
Rumor has it that the "dice control" myth was the brain-child of a highly secretive consortium, convened some time in the early 70"s, in a bomb-proof bunker in South Tahoe and headed by the triumvirate of Henry Kissinger, Bill Harrah and Indria Ghandi.
The product of this historical occurence was two-fold, as the other item did, in fact, manifest itself almost immediately,i.e. the gas crisis of '72.

 

[aslan]

.... a conspiracy perpetuated by the evil gaming industrial machine to disseminate the illusion that one can, in fact beat the game of craps after countless hours and huge monetary losses incurred by the masses of pathetic disillusioned dice shooters seeking imaginary paths to higher economic status.
Rumor has it that the "dice control" myth was the brain-child of a highly secretive consortium, convened some time in the early 70"s, in a bomb-proof bunker in South Tahoe and headed by the triumvirate of Henry Kissinger, Bill Harrah and Indria Ghandi.
The product of this historical occurence was two-fold, as the other item did, in fact, manifest itself almost immediately,i.e. the gas crisis of '72.

Back in the day, and not even that far, say, 1990-ish, casinos were not all that concerned about the possibility of DC. They were very lackadaisical about requiring the dice to bounce off the backboard. Well, every GI knows, or should know, you can't trust a guy who wants to roll dice on a blanket. Dice control is not only possible in this manner, you are sure to get separated from your bankroll if you let someone do this to you. I've heard it said that Archie Karas broke the house at Binion's in just this way. But he lost it all back when Binion got wise and installed a highly bouncy material under the felt. When Archie rolled on this doctored surface, the story goes, he could not make it happen. So it went, from broke to $40,000,000 and back to broke again in the course of four years. The incredible run.

Prayer is probably the best approach where you must hit the pyramids and bounce back on the table. One consulting study found that the dice in a game setting are thrown with 222 times more force than is necessary to get a random roll, and this is without hitting the backboard. Steve forte ran a test in which he set the dice and dropped them from a height of ten inches 6,000 times. He found no difference from the expected results for a random throw.

Still, I have great confidence in some player's ability to do the seemingly impossible. I know what can be done on a pool table and I'm sure the consultants would say that certain things are impossible--but I've seen the impossible performed many times with my own eyes. Nothing is impossible. watch this demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp-bGtpLakM

I was watching a world champion practice one day. He didn't have a clear path to the pocket. What did he do? He fired the cue ball at a object ball that had no clear path and lo and behold the object ball bounced up in the air and jumped over the blocking ball and into the pocket.

I knew a guy who would throw a ball off the table and let it roll twenty or thirty feet. then he would bet he could hit an object ball on the table causing the cue ball to jump off the table and roll across the floor to make a billiard by striking the ball in the floor. Don't bet him if you value your money.

I've seen guys who could throw playing cards hundreds of feet, for example, over a house.

Nothing would surprise me.

 

[bj bob]

Prayer is probably the best approach where you must hit the pyramids and bounce back on the table. One consulting study found that the dice in a game setting are thrown with 222 times more force than is necessary to get a random roll, and this is without hitting the backboard. Steve forte ran a test in which he set the dice and dropped them from a height of ten inches 6,000 times. He found no difference from the expected results for a random throw.


I was watching a world champion practice one day. He didn't have a clear path to the pocket. What did he do? He fired the cue ball at a object ball that had no clear path and lo and behold the object ball bounced up in the air and jumped over the blocking ball and into the pocket.

I knew a guy who would throw a ball off the table and let it roll twenty or thirty feet. then he would bet he could hit an object ball on the table causing the cue ball to jump off the table and roll across the floor to make a billiard by striking the ball in the floor. Don't bet him if you value your money.

I've seen guys who could throw playing cards hundreds of feet, for example, over a house.

Next thing you're gonna tell me is that you can make a cue ball reverse it's direction by applying a 1/4 tip low English with stroke. Such nonsense! It's just an optical illusion, don't you know?:laugh::laugh:
BTW, did you get my PM?