Spanish 21 book
- Thread starter QFIT
- Start date
zengrifter
Banned
Ya ya, you know what I'm asking.QFIT said:Perhaps his Armada ran into Speed Count. Or maybe his Five-Count for beating Craps. Or maybe the Lottery book he pushes, or the progression system.
For one thing, I'm thinking theres a bit of hype here. Pontoon and SP21 are not identical are they?
SP21, vegas-style, I'm thinking is a very poor quality game, SCORE-wise.
And now there's a 'breakthrough' or something? Or is it a paradigm-shift? zg
In AC, you can double on any number of cards, late surrender on any initial 2 cards, and surrender any doubled bet by taking back half of your doubled bet after you get your card. Handy for when you get that Ace on a doubled 11 lol.shadroch said:
Played it for years in AC. It's fun. Absolutely noone knows absolutely anything. Zippo. Nada. They play it like BJ and get killed. And, of course, scream at you constantly for not playing it like BJ.
What do you think Katrina meant when she said "Norm's CVData works for SP21 now. It is Norm's software that I recommend to my readers."QFIT said:
Norm, would you say your software could duplicate the results of her software? Could it use and sim counts and indices under various rule sets? Does it give standard deviation for bet ramps etc?
And, Katrina, didn't mean to not address the question to you so feel free to make any comment.
Would either of you say the AC side Match Bet is countable? Or not?
Katrina - would you say the crappy Vegas game with H17 and no re-doubling is also beatable?
I've wondered for years about this game and can't wait to read what you say.
Does it address standard deviation? No matter, you had me at hello lol.
Katarina Walker
New Member
Counting in Spanish 21
I use Hi-Lo for Spanish 21. In terms of betting efficiency, it is the most efficient 1-level counting system.
Hi-Lo is unbalanced for Spanish 21, since there are 4 10-spots missing per deck. So you start your running count at -4n, where n = number of decks, and calculate true count as usual, using 48-card decks.
The H17 Spanish 21 game, as they have in Vegas, has a high house edge, around the 0.8% mark. Is it still beatable? Absolutely. But the SCORE for the H17 8-deck game is half the SCORE for the H17 with redoubling 6-deck game (80% pen, back-count, optimal betting).
If you live in Vegas, you are probably better off playing S17 LS Blackjack. It depends on the level of heat, and it depends on the penetration. If your Vegas game gives excellent pen, and low heat (so you can bet perfectly proportional to your advantage, and inversely proportional to your variance, and back-count), you are better off playing this game than S17 LS BJ.
This is why it is important to run sims. I always run sims before playing a game. I only ever play the most profitable games.
InPlay said:
I use Hi-Lo for Spanish 21. In terms of betting efficiency, it is the most efficient 1-level counting system.
Hi-Lo is unbalanced for Spanish 21, since there are 4 10-spots missing per deck. So you start your running count at -4n, where n = number of decks, and calculate true count as usual, using 48-card decks.
The H17 Spanish 21 game, as they have in Vegas, has a high house edge, around the 0.8% mark. Is it still beatable? Absolutely. But the SCORE for the H17 8-deck game is half the SCORE for the H17 with redoubling 6-deck game (80% pen, back-count, optimal betting).
If you live in Vegas, you are probably better off playing S17 LS Blackjack. It depends on the level of heat, and it depends on the penetration. If your Vegas game gives excellent pen, and low heat (so you can bet perfectly proportional to your advantage, and inversely proportional to your variance, and back-count), you are better off playing this game than S17 LS BJ.
This is why it is important to run sims. I always run sims before playing a game. I only ever play the most profitable games.
OK - now you've really gone and done it lol.Katarina Walker said:
I've waited my whole life to hear a woman say that. Do you smoke cigars by any chance lol?
I'm married and all, happily so, and I'll die before my wife says anything close to that lol, so have no fear, plus I'm old and ugly lol, but can I come visit you when I go see my cousin in Australia?
I probably sound sexist or something, just my awkward way of saying I like your attitude. If I offend, I apologise. Late at night here, morning there lol.
But the fact it took a woman to do what you have done, to be the first to do it, in an arena that, to me anyway, seems dominated by male-everything, well, words just fail me. Where was Janecek, Wong, Auston, Wiz, Bryce, even Norm, etc, all capable perhaps of doing what you have done but, for some reason, apparently not interested in doing it. I even asked some of them but it was "maybe later, no time now" kind of answer.
But, just so you know, if I was even half as smart as you, I would have done this years ago. Been wanting to for I don't know how long. I said old and ugly. Add just not smart enough. a/k/a dumb.
Thanks for filling a void. As Capt Kirk would say, and certainly you have lol, "To boldly go where no man has gone before". Now you really know how old I am lol.
I don't even care if you proved SP21 is beatable or not. From what little I think I know I'm still not completely convinced it is beatable in any practical way. Maybe a bit like baccarat or something. But, either way, finally, after how many years has SP21 been around?, we all know a little more. Right now I'm like a kid at Xmas waiting to read what you have to say.
Any thoughts as to why you are the first? Love to hear how this evolved.
Don't know a single thing about ya.
Luv ya.
Congrats.
And thanks.
Have absolutely no idea but, if you ignore the "Super Bonus" thing pays $1000 on bets less than $25 anf $5000 on bets of =>25, I'd guess it would be less because you double and split much less frequently than in BJ. Not to mention surrender and double-down rescue.RG1 said:
I'm not even sure whether that Super Bonus payoff is even included in the house edge since it happens so infrequently.
Just a wild guess mind you lol.
Well, on the other side of the coin, could you describe what it does do? In other words, is it just for playing the game at a whatever neg HA it has - a tool to learn BS perhaps. Guess I was wondering what place a neg EV game would have in your software in the first place? lol.QFIT said:
No big deal lol.
That reminds me of when I used one I made up saving the $3 lol, the very first time I ever played, and the boss came over after a little bit wondering what I was doing occasionaly referring to my palm, after everyone, including the dealer, was bitching at me for being an idiot and wanting me gone. I told him it was just a BS card, this is the first time I've ever played the game, and was that OK? For some reason, perhaps fearing I'd drive paying customers away or something, they didn't seem to like the very idea of it. Anyway, once he looked at it, saw it said to hit all 12's & 13's up to 14 vs 3, he just laughed out loud, showed it to the dealer so she could get a good laugh out of it too, and said "Sure, no problem, it's your money. You're most welcome here." obviously thinking "You psyco nut case soon it will be mine" lol.21forme said:
When I was still there 5 hours later, up a hundred or two, on a 10 unit $100 buy-in, they thought I had to be the luckiest guy on God's green earth.
So, if I see someone in a month or 2 in AC playing perfect BS, I'll know it's one of you guys lol. Because whoever gets their first will be the second player in AC history to actually do it. Not a doubt in my mind.
I've told 100 people go ahead and hit that 13 vs 6. I know it's right. It's BS. It's OK, we're missing 32 10's after all. I've done it every single time for the last 6 hours and I'm still here, etc. Not a single one, ever, could bring themself to do it.
I've seen people lose thousands and thousands in just a few hours. I feel so bad because they play so bad. I try to help. I can never figure out why they risk so much so cluelessly. Some might not have cared, others were obviously devastated.
Guess I must lack credibility lol - was it Cassandra who Zeus condemned to always speak the truth but no one would ever believe her? lol.
Another thing I've always wondered about is just what the HA would be if one did play BJ BS in this game.
QFIT
Well-Known Member
As far as I know, CVBJ fully supports SP21 including redouble. If not I'll add whatever is needed. CVData supports modified decks, all the oddball payoffs, and different basic strategy plays or indexes by number of cards in your hand. It also generates composition-dependent indexes taking into account oddball payoffs. But it does not generate general indexes including oddball payoffs or different indexes for different numbers of cards in your hand.Kasi said:
Katarina:
I am considering purchase of your book. In making that decision, it would be helpful to know which of these games would provide a higher EV:
6D S17 DOA DAS regular blackjack HA 0.41
6D S 17 Spanish 21, HA 0.40
Let's assume equal penetration and table min. I would also be curious the effect if Spanish were more expensive than regular 21, say $15 v $10 min. The reason for that is I would like to limit my maximum bet to $150. I'm also talking about your version of HiLo vs the standard one for these games.
Thanks!
I am considering purchase of your book. In making that decision, it would be helpful to know which of these games would provide a higher EV:
6D S17 DOA DAS regular blackjack HA 0.41
6D S 17 Spanish 21, HA 0.40
Let's assume equal penetration and table min. I would also be curious the effect if Spanish were more expensive than regular 21, say $15 v $10 min. The reason for that is I would like to limit my maximum bet to $150. I'm also talking about your version of HiLo vs the standard one for these games.
Thanks!
SD Padres
Well-Known Member
Wow...I'm excited about this book. I have always wondered if SP21 was beatable but knew I never had the brains to figure it out.
Reminds me back in 1982 when I first found out blackjack was beatable. I was pretty pumped! Hope this game doesn't get burned out too quickly. :grin:
Reminds me back in 1982 when I first found out blackjack was beatable. I was pretty pumped! Hope this game doesn't get burned out too quickly. :grin: